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Government drops plans for mandatory digital ID to work in UK
- AlexandrB 9mo agoFor now. For whatever reason, Tony Blair's think tank is obsessed with this idea[1]. As I understand he still has a lot of influence over British politics. [1] https://institute.global/digital-id-what-is-it-and-how-it-works https://institute.global/digital-id-what-is-it-and-how-it-wo...
- scrlk 9mo ago> For whatever reason, Tony Blair's think tank is obsessed with this idea. Probably considers it as unfinished business from his administration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_Cards_Act_2006
- vimda 9mo agoIf you ignore all the big red flags, it _is_ an attractive and convenient idea. One ID for all my government services? Useful. The devil, as always, is in the details
- vablings 9mo agoThere are absolutely ways to implement a digital ID system that is not soaking wet with red flags. See the following: https://www.eid.admin.ch/en/swiyu-coming-soon-e https://www.eid.admin.ch/en/swiyu-coming-soon-e
- nephihaha 9mo agoIt doesn't originate with him, it is being phased in internationally. It's obviously been discussed far more widely.
- nprateem 9mo agoAnyone with half a brain can see it could be a good idea. Everything else is online, why shouldn't ID be? Better to send a validated token to companies doing KYC than actual PII. And that's before you get into the illegal immigration, right to work, etc. I really don't understand the arguments against it. You don't think the State can't shut you down if you break the law already?
- noodlesUK 9mo agoIt sounds like they've dropped the digital ID part being mandatory, but not the digital right-to-work checks being mandatory. I suspect that the UK will end up building something like the US's E-Verify programme, which allows a number of documents to be checked against authoritative sources. It really wouldn't be that hard to build a service that in the first instance allowed you to generate a share code with a GBR passport much the same way people can generate share codes with their drivers licenses or UKVI accounts. What I have a problem with is just how fragmented and broken the UK immigration system is when you have the misfortune of coming into contact with it. It's (like many such large systems worldwide) a set of policies and rules that have accumulated over time into something that is pathologically poorly thought out. I'm going through the process of renewing my spouse's visa (I'm British), and it's fractally awful -- we've just had a snarky email from our landlord who is worried that the right-to-rent permission is expiring, but it's not possible to apply for a renewal for the visa prior to 28 days before expiry of her current visa. I meet all the criteria to sponsor my spouse for renewal, but the evidentiary burden is insane (I've collected 400+ pages of documents so far). Nobody wants this. It is very expensive and difficult (probably >£10k per person until permanent residency in fees, not including legal expenses) to be compliant even if you meet the criteria, which just leads people falling out of status (to borrow an American term). The government (of all stripes) tries to be "tough" but the only lever it knows how to pull is to make the rules stricter, not making them better enforced or align with some meaningful policy agenda. This farcical situation extends into the UK's broken citizenship model where there are 6 different types of nationality, none of which give any rights you can't build through a hodgepodge of other different statuses. As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that permits dual nationality with itself! A government online account which can generate verifiable credentials would probably be helpful in a broad sense but it wouldn't cure bad policy which is rampant in the UK immigration sector. I'd much rather have some kind of digital ID that's clear and authoritative rather than just hoping that Experian has my details right with no recourse if they're wrong.
- exe34 9mo ago> As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that permits dual nationality with itself! How does one apply for this?
- andy_ppp 9mo agoYou know the UK desperately needs to spend billions on a never ending software project with some awful agencies building the impossible.
- IshKebab 9mo agoShame. This made a lot of sense. > existing checks, using documents such as biometric passports, will move fully online by 2029. Well I guess that's good at least. I imagine they'll just assign people "digital passports" at some point and you just pay to get a paper copy.
- Pet_Ant 9mo agoAll this rigor for a country without an actual formalised constitution. I mean, maybe the government should work on that first and make sure it has a right to work there first? > Unlike in most countries, no official attempt has been made to codify ... thus it is known as an uncodified constitution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kin...
- dgxyz 9mo agoBased on recent events, I wouldn't suggest a constitution makes much of a difference to an adversarial government.
- littlestymaar 9mo agoThis. The illusion that you could fend off tyranny with a piece of paper was always a bit ridiculous, and it shows.
- isk517 9mo agoArguably it's purpose is to define where government responsibility ends and tyranny begins. Very useful if the population it applies to cares about it being violated
- bogdan 9mo agoI'm sorry but how is this relevant? Or did you just recently learn this and thought it's "interesting" to share?
- everyday7732 9mo agoThis line was particluarly interesting: "... Labour MPs are growing increasingly frustrated with the government's U-turns. Some had already been wary of defending controversial government policies to their constituents because they feared that the policy would inevitably be reversed." which implies that the MPs are openly admitting that they don't state their personal opinions, merely parrot the party line, but are frustrated when they are required to abruptly change the things they claim to believe in. What a farce. Members of parliament should have their OWN fucking views about things, and defend or debate those views on behalf of the people they represent.
- OgsyedIE 9mo agoThose people get deselected by the NEC.
- 9JollyOtter 9mo agoThat why they have party whips and threaten deselections for people that have their own ideas. Many of these people would not be in Parliament if they weren't selected by the party. Most people vote for a party, not the MP. So why would it benefit the MP to have their own views when they can just parrot whatever they've been told to? It doesn't.
- throwaway85825 9mo agoThe most ridiculous thing about UK politics is that there is zero residency requirement.
- 9JollyOtter 9mo agoThere is always something in the UK where I find out something utterly ridiculous is allowed, yet they are quite happy to legislate thousands of other things.
- fleroviumna 9mo ago[dead]
- TacticalCoder 9mo agoSeen that the entire plan of the UK atm apparently relies on bringing in as many illegals as possible in the shortest time possible, I don't see how that'd be compatible with a mandatory digital ID. So I'm not surprised to see this trashed.
- gizajob 9mo agoThis will lead to Reform and then to Reform Pro Max with extra ICE, which should then combat that issue.
- vablings 9mo agoJust curious where you are seeing this? Illegal immigration figures are down under the current government
- exe34 9mo ago> Seen that the entire plan of the UK atm apparently relies on bringing in as many illegals as possible in the shortest time possible Could you say a bit more about this? I didn't find it in their manifesto from the last election. Is it a new policy? Do you know which minister is responsible?
- blitzar 9mo agoYou are thinking of the party that was previously in government.
- Flere-Imsaho 9mo agoIt's completely in the current gov's power to stop all illegal immigration and to stem the flow of legal immigration. For whatever reason I cannot fathom, they do not enact that power. At some point we have to stop blaming the previous government.
- blitzar 9mo agoThe people who fronted the brexit campaign, enacted the will of the people and took back control of immigration in the exact manner they promised to. Net migration went from 100's of thousands to millions, why would we not blame them and blame someone else? "Migration could get to net-zero in 2026" is what the current government are getting blamed for.
- elric 9mo agoWhen I lived in the UK in the early-mid 00s, I was really confused by how much of a digital backwater it was. Opening a bank account required several months of utility bills (on paper!) with my name as "proof of address". Taxes were paper only. Paper payslips. No concept of interacting with the government in any digital way. No concept of government ID other than a full size passport, which made the many silly age checks in pubs and stores rather laughable. I'm sure things have gotten better, but I'll never forget how backwards it all seemed coming from puny Belgium.
- gizajob 9mo agoHmm try Italy or Spain…
- calgoo 9mo agoSpain was finally forced to improve some of their systems during covid. Its still a bit of a mess, but at least you can do some things online now.
- 9JollyOtter 9mo agoWhen I lived in Spain getting my NIE number was a pain as the office was open for 2 hours in the morning. Luckily I was with an English person that spoke Spanish that helped me fill out the forms.
- 9JollyOtter 9mo ago> No concept of government ID other than a full size passport, which made the many silly age checks in pubs and stores rather laughable. Memorising your Birthday to be 2 years earlier to fool the pub bouncer was what we all did.
- vablings 9mo agoThings for sure are better, once you are kinda on the digital ladder with various things its ok. Drivers License, NI Number, Passport and Proof of address documents are all fairly trivial to get Payslips are fully automated and there is a nice HMRC app that lets you see your PAYE income. Also, the NHS app is not half bad, you can mostly access any previous information but its not always fully populated due to a mixed bag of records
- jph 9mo agoI'm in the affected group because I'm a US citizen working in the UK. There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole. What I experienced last year was many digital verification steps that were all required: open a UK bank account, sign up for a UK phone number, secure a UK residential postal address, apply for UK right-to-rent codes, generate a UK national insurance number, file for UK healthcare registration, and more. Each step had different digital workflows and UI/UX. To traverse all these steps took hundreds of hours and a couple months wall time. Many steps had catch-22s. The UK bank account needed a UK phone number, while the UK phone company needed a UK bank account. The UK payroll company needed a permanent residence, while the UK landlord needed UK payroll stubs. None of the steps had a quick simple way to digitally verify my UK work visa. IMHO federation could be a big help here, such as for government agencies and government-approved businesses doing opt-in data sharing and ideally via APIs. For example, imagine each step can share its relevant information with other steps. This could make things more efficient, more accurate, and ideally more secure.
- subscribed 9mo agoSome of these catch 22 issues were self imposed. You could get a prepaid (pay as you go) SIM for £1 from any phone service shop in a minute. Few years ago I could get a "Passport" account from HSBC without UK phone at all and without a proof of address, I was simply asked to show my employment contract to THW clerk. And the rest -- in the UK lives many EU citizens who are used to having the ID cards and are used to their utility. Many are VASTLY superior to what Labour was trying to impose. The thing is, there's a fundamental difference between these and the ID card UK's Labour wanted to introduce. It wasn't to make things EASIER. If it was, you'd get a plastic with NFC, photo, perhaps UTR or NINo and a date of birth, with a storage to keep your Oyster card or other sort of ID. Its a solved and tried problem. It wasn't to make things safer - otherwise you could use it to sign your documents with a certificate - securely, reading your ID by your phone. You could use your ID to ANONYMOUSLY (yes) confirm your age. Not only offline (when buying alcohol as a Muslim for example), but also online. It was openly planned to be used as a tool of control and oppression. PM was claiming it will be easier to control the pesky immigrants (lying it will make impossible employing someone illegally - lying, because Right to Work scheme is in force right noe, and its also completely online). It was supposed to be a bind, not a tool. Only online identifier is a nightmare waiting to happen for every single European with a settled status -- NOTHING to prove legal status except for computer saying "yay". People lost job, homes, got bounced off the border because "the computer" wrongly claimed they were not legally. THIS is what it was supposed to be in the first place. It's okay if you don't believe me, but in that case please look up three examples: lists if features of the Estonian, Dutch and Polish ID card, what things you can do with use of either, consider the convenience and safety, and THEN compare it with only-online solution touted by the Labour, their intended use and features. Not a list of the documents it will supposedly replace, but features. And that in XXIst century with eIDAS 2.0 in force - so the best practices available to pick and use. But no, Britain gonna Britain...
- graemep 9mo agoThey are still trying to bring in digital ID. There are multiple attempts to push it. They still plan to try to push it as a convenience. They also plan a digital ID for children.
- shevy-java 9mo agoIt can be called digital fascism. Everyone gets monitored now. Big government loves you.
- vablings 9mo agoNot sure what invoking children here does for the sake of argumentation. Digital ID is not bad; the issue is the implementation of digital ID that will cause huge issues such as giving billions of pounds to friends of MPs
- graemep 9mo ago> Not sure what invoking children here does for the sake of argumentation. Because by requiring children, but not adults, to have digital ID as part of a much larger (and pretty terrible) law that is already close to being passed and disguising it as a safeguarding measure they are sneaking it in for some people AND getting the next generation used to it. > Digital ID is not bad; The opposition to digital ID is largely coming from people who do think Digital ID is bad.
- vablings 9mo agoDigital ID is a very wishy-washy concept that has been co-opted by various groups to make strong statements about government overreach. If you want to make criticism you should make narrower statements, for example. A centralized ID system that can be used to safely verify the authenticity of a presenting party is good! If that system can be used to track this person in more invasive ways than already possible with IMSI catchers, credit cards and facial recognition that is bad! People think Digital ID is bad and this everlasting evil concept that will further make the most surveilled country in the world an Orwellian nightmare overnight which is a dramatization. The devil is really in the details here and depending on what flavors of implementation determines the "goodness"
- shevy-java 9mo agoWhile that is great, the lobbyists who disguise as politicians who tried to sneak this in, need to permanently leave ALL affiliations to politics. Politics right now in the UK is just a lobbyist sleaze fest.
- curiousgal 9mo agoIt's almost comical how bad this Labour government is...
- indy 9mo agoThey became so bad so quickly and now all that's happening is more and more people swearing never to vote Labour again. This is leaving the door open for Reform at the next election.
- 9JollyOtter 9mo agoThey won't be any better. Farage is ultimately untrustworthy.
- nephihaha 9mo agoNow they will just make it very hard for those who opt out.
- nprateem 9mo agoA useless government lacking any sort of leadership. At a stroke this would destroy illegal immigration if it was mandatory and tied to receiving benefits.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- lifetimerubyist 9mo agoThe Brits should be grateful that a government with such horrible ideas is comically incompetent. Sometimes just keeping the status quo is a good thing. Having a government that just constantly enacts legislation isn’t necessarily good. A useless government is preferable to an even moderately competent tyrannical one.
- jamiepond 9mo ago“Government walks back plan to become surveillance state after everyone mad about it”
- pipes 9mo agoBut they are still going ahead with digital id!?
- DrScientist 9mo agoThe headline is a bit misleading. What they have done is drop the requirement for a single specific digital ID. However they haven't dropped the requirement for a digital ID to work - you just have options between more than one digital ID.