4 ms·

You're making a nuanced point but it's correct. Good managers can give a little motivation (mostly by talking about and finding the right areas to work on for

by AdamN 9mo ago

You're making a nuanced point but it's correct. Good managers can give a little motivation (mostly by talking about and finding the right areas to work on for those people that don't otherwise already know). But for the most part good management is buffering the core that allows individuals own motivation to be self-sustaining (and productive over time) and also making sure that people aren't on a path that won't be useful (i.e. the manager knows the company will never fund phase 2).

ubercore 9mo ago
Good managers will help you find your own motivation and set you up to follow it. Bad managers will kill it.
- cudgy 9mo ago
  In this case, I would prefer an average manager that does not try to interfere with my motivations.
  - skeeter2020 9mo ago
    this makes sense, but can be at odds with the reason you're there. If your manager is not working to align your personal motivations with those of the organization they are failing. I don't believe it's a spectrum of good-bad management and "level of motivational interference". An "average manager" just does a weak job at the individual-organizational alignment.
n4r9 9mo ago
Great managers absolutely can provide motivation. They can have a genuinely compelling vision for a product - "we're going to build the best damn FooGadget on the web". They can figure out what motivates their reports and work to make it transparent to them - for example some engineers like to see positive client feedback, whilst other engineers like having thorny problems to solve.
- ljm 9mo ago
  Yes. It stands to reason that if a manager can demotivate you, then they must be able to do the opposite. Both building the vibe and killing it can achieve that in terms of extrinsic motivation, culture, the psychological contract, and so on. These are important factors to consider for people who work in highly collaborative teams as opposed to those who prefer to be 10x lone wolves, which is the impression I get from the article and the overall startup vibe I've experienced over the past few years. HN might be over-indexed on the "leave me alone to do my work", "I don't have friends I have colleagues," type of person but it's not representative of the entire population.
  - ragall 9mo ago
    > It stands to reason that if a manager can demotivate you, then they must be able to do the opposite. You share that with no justification. There's no such "reason".
    - philipallstar 9mo ago
      > There's no such "reason" You share that with no justification.
      - pessimizer 9mo ago
        It stands to reason that if gravity can make things fall down, it can make things fall up. It stands to reason that if an earthquake can collapse a building that it can build one. It stands to reason that if rat poison can kill rats then it can make them stronger. ("reason" left to be worked out by the reader as an exercise)
        player1234 9mo ago
        [dead]
        ljm 9mo ago
        It stands to reason that if someone makes an argument you can make a strawman against it. In this thread, a manager is compared to earthquakes, ratpoison and gravity… which has fuck all to do with management. Come on…just say if you don’t like something, like “I don’t like managers and you can’t change my mind.” Be fucking honest for a minute. Have some god damn conviction instead of this weaksauce shit. Interpersonal relationships are obviously not subject to the laws of thermodynamics.

by AdamN 9mo ago

ubercore 9mo ago

Good managers will help you find your own motivation and set you up to follow it. Bad managers will kill it.

cudgy 9mo ago
In this case, I would prefer an average manager that does not try to interfere with my motivations.
- skeeter2020 9mo ago
  this makes sense, but can be at odds with the reason you're there. If your manager is not working to align your personal motivations with those of the organization they are failing. I don't believe it's a spectrum of good-bad management and "level of motivational interference". An "average manager" just does a weak job at the individual-organizational alignment.

n4r9 9mo ago

Great managers absolutely can provide motivation. They can have a genuinely compelling vision for a product - "we're going to build the best damn FooGadget on the web". They can figure out what motivates their reports and work to make it transparent to them - for example some engineers like to see positive client feedback, whilst other engineers like having thorny problems to solve.

ljm 9mo ago
Yes. It stands to reason that if a manager can demotivate you, then they must be able to do the opposite. Both building the vibe and killing it can achieve that in terms of extrinsic motivation, culture, the psychological contract, and so on. These are important factors to consider for people who work in highly collaborative teams as opposed to those who prefer to be 10x lone wolves, which is the impression I get from the article and the overall startup vibe I've experienced over the past few years. HN might be over-indexed on the "leave me alone to do my work", "I don't have friends I have colleagues," type of person but it's not representative of the entire population.
- ragall 9mo ago
  > It stands to reason that if a manager can demotivate you, then they must be able to do the opposite. You share that with no justification. There's no such "reason".
  - philipallstar 9mo ago
    > There's no such "reason" You share that with no justification.
    - pessimizer 9mo ago
      It stands to reason that if gravity can make things fall down, it can make things fall up. It stands to reason that if an earthquake can collapse a building that it can build one. It stands to reason that if rat poison can kill rats then it can make them stronger. ("reason" left to be worked out by the reader as an exercise)
      - player1234 9mo ago
        [dead]
      - ljm 9mo ago
        It stands to reason that if someone makes an argument you can make a strawman against it. In this thread, a manager is compared to earthquakes, ratpoison and gravity… which has fuck all to do with management. Come on…just say if you don’t like something, like “I don’t like managers and you can’t change my mind.” Be fucking honest for a minute. Have some god damn conviction instead of this weaksauce shit. Interpersonal relationships are obviously not subject to the laws of thermodynamics.