4 ms·

Why is trash an "enormous externality"? Even if the retailer took it back it would still be... trash.

• throwmeoutplzdo 9mo ago
  It should be at a minimum stored safely. How and why are the environmental effects not a factor for you?
  • loeg 9mo ago
    Regular trash is already stored safely.
    • lostlogin 9mo ago
      The great pacific garbage patch disagrees.
      • loeg 9mo ago
        As mentioned in the other thread, ocean plastics have nothing to do with landfill-disposed trash. They're mostly fishing nets waste, and at that, mostly from mismanagement by a handful of poor countries. I'll assume good faith here and that you were simply unaware of the origins of the so-called great garbage patch, but in future discussions I think it would do your arguments some credence not to bring up ocean plastics in response to discussion about landfills.
• schrodinger 9mo ago
  It's an externality because the entity that sold it to you doesn't have to pay the consequences of dealing with the trash. OP said "dispose of it properly," which could mean a lot of things, all of which are better than leaving it on a beach.
  • loeg 9mo ago
    Trash disposal (to regulated landfills, not beaches) is enormously inexpensive and increasing the cost of every item through a laborious return program doesn't improve anything.
    • lostlogin 9mo ago
      Nearly all the plastic humans have made still exists. The great garbage patch in the Pacific is growing fast. The plastic is ending up in everything. We need to do better. Make less waste. Use less plastic.
      • loeg 9mo ago
        > Nearly all the plastic humans have made still exists. And it just doesn't matter. It's a tiny amount of mass / volume. > The great garbage patch in the Pacific is growing fast. Ocean plastics are almost entirely a consequence of (particularly Indonesian) fishing net waste, not Western consumer products disposed of in managed landfills. The "great garbage patch" is also very much overstating the scale of the problem; it's a slightly higher plastic density region of ocean.
        • Earw0rm 9mo ago
          Go on, give us some numbers. Because 7Bn people multiplied by a few kg/year doesn't seem trivial to me, but sounds like you can prove it.
          • hippo22 9mo ago
            The main thing about plastic is that it’s made from oil, and oil already exists in the ground. Putting it back into the ground is basically neutral minus the pollution involved in manufacturing.
            • Earw0rm 9mo ago
              Right, but there's ground and there's ground. Geological strata vs shallow landfill sitting above aquifers and subject to near-term erosion. Disposing of this stuff in deep mines seems like it'd be fine, unfortunately we haven't yet, at a society/economy level, found the discipline to do so. Presumably after a few mya of heat and pressure it'll be indistinguishable from other petrochemicals (which aren't particularly nice to begin with).
• small_scombrus 9mo ago
  > Even if the retailer took it back it would still be... trash. Yes, but making them deal with it would create a massive incentive to either reduce the amount of rubbish they make, or to make it recyclable/processable.