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To me, this sounds like: AI is helping me solve all the issues that using AI has caused. Wordpress has a pretty good export and Markdown is widely supported.

To me, this sounds like: AI is helping me solve all the issues that using AI has caused. Wordpress has a pretty good export and Markdown is widely supported. If you estimate 1 month of work to get that into NextJS, then maybe the latter is not a suitable choice.

tengbretson 9mo ago
To me, this sounds like: If AI was good at a certain task then it was a bad task in the first place. Which is just run of the mill dogmatic thinking.
serf 9mo ago
it's wild that somehow with regards to AI conversations lately someone can say "I saved 3 months doing X" and someone can willfully and thoughtfully reply "No you didn't , you're wrong." without hesitation. I feel bad for AI opponents mostly because it seems like the drive to be against the thing is stronger than the drive towards fact or even kindness. My .02c: I am saving months of efforts using AI tools to fix old (PRE-AI, PREHISTORIC!) codebases that have literally zero AI technical debt associated to them. I'm not going to bother with the charts & stats, you'll just have to trust me and my opinion like humans must do in lots of cases. I have lots of sharp knives in my kitchen, too -- but I don't want to have to go slice my hands on every one to prove to strangers that they are indeed sharp -- you'll just have to take my word.
- jbgt 9mo ago
  Slice THEIR hands. They might say yours are rigged. I'm a non dev and the things I'm building blow me away. I think many of these people criticizing are perhaps more on the execution side and have a legitimate craft they are protecting. If you're more on the managerial side, and I'd say a trusting manager not a show me your work kind, then you're more likely to be open and results oriented.
  - array_key_first 9mo ago
    From a developer POV, or at least my developer POV, less code is always better. The best code is no code at all. I think getting results can be very easy, at first. But I force myself to not just spit out code, because I've been burned so, so, so many times by that. As software grows, the complexity explodes. It's not linear like the growth of the software itself, it feels exponential. Adding one feature takes 100x the time it should because everything is just squished together and barely working. Poorly designed systems eventually bring velocity to a halt, and you can eventually reach a point where even the most trivial of changes are close to impossible. That being said, there is value in throwaway code. After all, what is an Excel workbook if not throwaway code? But never let the throwaway become a product, or grow too big. Otherwise, you become a prisoner. That cheeky little Excel workbook can turn into a full-blown backend application sitting on a share drive, and it WILL take you a decade to migrate off of it.
    - mycall 9mo ago
      You can use AI to simplify software stacks too, only your imagination limits you. How do you see things working with many less abstraction layers? I remember coding BASIC with POKE/PEEK assembly inside it, same with Turbo Pascal with assembly (C/C++ has similar extern abilities). Perhaps you want no more web or UI (TUI?). Once you imagine what you are looking for, you can label it and go from there.
    - wouldbecouldbe 9mo ago
      yeah AI is perfect at refactor and cleaning things up, you just have to instruct it. I've improved my code significanlty by asking it to clean up, refactor function to pure that I can use & test over a messy application. Without creating new bugs.
      - xmcp123 9mo ago
        Holy hell, AI is not at all perfect at refactoring. Absolutely terrified on your behalf if you believe this to be the case.
  - 9mo ago
- immibis 9mo ago
  Just look at the METR study. All predictions were massive time savings but all observations were massive time losses. That's why we don't believe you when you say you saved time.
  - solumunus 9mo ago
    You should know better than to form a opinion from one study. I could show you endless examples of a study concluding untrue things, endless… I’ve been full time (almost solo) building an ERP system for years and my development velocity has gone roughly 2x. The new features are of equal quality, everything is code reviewed, everything is done in my style, adhering to my architectural patterns. Not to mention I’ve managed to build a mobile app alongside my normal full time work, something I wouldn’t have even had the time to attempt to learn about without the use of agents. So do you think I’m lying or do you just think my eyes are deceiving me somehow?
    - deleted 9mo ago
      [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 9mo ago
      I think any measurement of development velocity is shaky, especially when measured between two different workflows, and especially when measured by the person doing the development. Such an estimate is far less reliable than your eyes are. So if people want to do more and better studies, that sounds great. But I have a good supply of salt for self-estimates. I'm listening to your input, but it's much easier for your self-assessment to have issues than you're implying.
    - fuy 9mo ago
      Not saying you're wrong, but solo developers building (relatively) greenfield projects are the best bet for increased AI productivity. Solo dev projects are usually reasonably sized (< million LOC), style is more uniform, there's fewer silos etc. etc. Good studies look at a broader picture.
      - 9mo ago
- mattmaroon 9mo ago
  It is wild. I must admit I have a bit of Gell Mann amnesia when it comes to HN comments. I often check them to see what people think about an article, but then every time the article touches on something I know deeply, I realize it’s all just know-it-all puffery. Then I forget and check it when it’s on the many things I do not know much about. My cofounder is extremely technically competent, but all these people are like good luck with your spaghetti vibe code. It’s humorous.
wouldbecouldbe 9mo ago
You are assuming a lot of things. The work was moving the many landing pages & content elements to NextJS, so we can test, iterate and develop faster. While having a more stable system. This was a 10 year old website, with a very large custom WordPress codebase and many plugins. The content is still in WordPress backend & will be migrated in the second phase.
6510 9mo ago
There is much going on in that exchange. I don't even know what a Wordpress site is anymore. > then maybe the latter is not a suitable choice. But now it only takes days which makes it suitable? There also is the paradoxical question if it is worth the time from someone who knows what they are doing? how would you even tell?

tengbretson 9mo ago

To me, this sounds like: If AI was good at a certain task then it was a bad task in the first place. Which is just run of the mill dogmatic thinking.

serf 9mo ago

it's wild that somehow with regards to AI conversations lately someone can say "I saved 3 months doing X" and someone can willfully and thoughtfully reply "No you didn't , you're wrong." without hesitation. I feel bad for AI opponents mostly because it seems like the drive to be against the thing is stronger than the drive towards fact or even kindness. My .02c: I am saving months of efforts using AI tools to fix old (PRE-AI, PREHISTORIC!) codebases that have literally zero AI technical debt associated to them. I'm not going to bother with the charts & stats, you'll just have to trust me and my opinion like humans must do in lots of cases. I have lots of sharp knives in my kitchen, too -- but I don't want to have to go slice my hands on every one to prove to strangers that they are indeed sharp -- you'll just have to take my word.

jbgt 9mo ago
Slice THEIR hands. They might say yours are rigged. I'm a non dev and the things I'm building blow me away. I think many of these people criticizing are perhaps more on the execution side and have a legitimate craft they are protecting. If you're more on the managerial side, and I'd say a trusting manager not a show me your work kind, then you're more likely to be open and results oriented.
- array_key_first 9mo ago
  From a developer POV, or at least my developer POV, less code is always better. The best code is no code at all. I think getting results can be very easy, at first. But I force myself to not just spit out code, because I've been burned so, so, so many times by that. As software grows, the complexity explodes. It's not linear like the growth of the software itself, it feels exponential. Adding one feature takes 100x the time it should because everything is just squished together and barely working. Poorly designed systems eventually bring velocity to a halt, and you can eventually reach a point where even the most trivial of changes are close to impossible. That being said, there is value in throwaway code. After all, what is an Excel workbook if not throwaway code? But never let the throwaway become a product, or grow too big. Otherwise, you become a prisoner. That cheeky little Excel workbook can turn into a full-blown backend application sitting on a share drive, and it WILL take you a decade to migrate off of it.
  - mycall 9mo ago
    You can use AI to simplify software stacks too, only your imagination limits you. How do you see things working with many less abstraction layers? I remember coding BASIC with POKE/PEEK assembly inside it, same with Turbo Pascal with assembly (C/C++ has similar extern abilities). Perhaps you want no more web or UI (TUI?). Once you imagine what you are looking for, you can label it and go from there.
  - wouldbecouldbe 9mo ago
    yeah AI is perfect at refactor and cleaning things up, you just have to instruct it. I've improved my code significanlty by asking it to clean up, refactor function to pure that I can use & test over a messy application. Without creating new bugs.
    - xmcp123 9mo ago
      Holy hell, AI is not at all perfect at refactoring. Absolutely terrified on your behalf if you believe this to be the case.
- 9mo ago
immibis 9mo ago
Just look at the METR study. All predictions were massive time savings but all observations were massive time losses. That's why we don't believe you when you say you saved time.
- solumunus 9mo ago
  You should know better than to form a opinion from one study. I could show you endless examples of a study concluding untrue things, endless… I’ve been full time (almost solo) building an ERP system for years and my development velocity has gone roughly 2x. The new features are of equal quality, everything is code reviewed, everything is done in my style, adhering to my architectural patterns. Not to mention I’ve managed to build a mobile app alongside my normal full time work, something I wouldn’t have even had the time to attempt to learn about without the use of agents. So do you think I’m lying or do you just think my eyes are deceiving me somehow?
  - deleted 9mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Dylan16807 9mo ago
    I think any measurement of development velocity is shaky, especially when measured between two different workflows, and especially when measured by the person doing the development. Such an estimate is far less reliable than your eyes are. So if people want to do more and better studies, that sounds great. But I have a good supply of salt for self-estimates. I'm listening to your input, but it's much easier for your self-assessment to have issues than you're implying.
  - fuy 9mo ago
    Not saying you're wrong, but solo developers building (relatively) greenfield projects are the best bet for increased AI productivity. Solo dev projects are usually reasonably sized (< million LOC), style is more uniform, there's fewer silos etc. etc. Good studies look at a broader picture.
    - 9mo ago
mattmaroon 9mo ago
It is wild. I must admit I have a bit of Gell Mann amnesia when it comes to HN comments. I often check them to see what people think about an article, but then every time the article touches on something I know deeply, I realize it’s all just know-it-all puffery. Then I forget and check it when it’s on the many things I do not know much about. My cofounder is extremely technically competent, but all these people are like good luck with your spaghetti vibe code. It’s humorous.

wouldbecouldbe 9mo ago

You are assuming a lot of things. The work was moving the many landing pages & content elements to NextJS, so we can test, iterate and develop faster. While having a more stable system. This was a 10 year old website, with a very large custom WordPress codebase and many plugins. The content is still in WordPress backend & will be migrated in the second phase.

6510 9mo ago

There is much going on in that exchange. I don't even know what a Wordpress site is anymore. > then maybe the latter is not a suitable choice. But now it only takes days which makes it suitable? There also is the paradoxical question if it is worth the time from someone who knows what they are doing? how would you even tell?