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At what point do we ever ask ourselves -- "what kind of culture do we want to create for the future of our country?" I don't think a pro soccer player is compar
by volkk 9mo ago
At what point do we ever ask ourselves -- "what kind of culture do we want to create for the future of our country?" I don't think a pro soccer player is comparable to an onlyfans contributor. I would much prefer my future kids to be inspired by Cristiano Ronaldo than someone baring themselves on camera.
- dylan604 9mo agoYet CR7 is routinely photographed baring himself on camera, which is one of the reasons he's so popular.
- pjmlp 9mo agoAlongside delivering in performance, and being a role model in pushing oneself to the limit in regards to training. Photos don't win matches.
- generic92034 9mo agoI am not an expert, but I would guess there is a lot of "pushing oneself to the limit" on OF...
- dylan604 9mo agoI'd be willing to bet that a vast majority of his "followers" are not because of his antics on the field but because of his thirst trap images
- hnlmorg 9mo agoIf what you’re just concerned about people “baring themselves on camera” then they can continue to do that without emigrating to America and it would still affect your culture. The internet is global after all. Also, it’s going to take more than a few thousand immigrants a year to affect the culture of a country as populous as America.
- NewJazz 9mo agoThe internet is global, but having folks in our midst who make a living that way has more of an effect on our culture than if they are just on the internet.
- hnlmorg 9mo agoWhy? I actually worked in the adult industry earlier in my career so have a better insight than most. and I can tell you that these models are just normal people like you an I. They aren’t interested in corrupting your children nor throwing wild sex parties in public spaces.
- NewJazz 9mo agoJust because they don't have ill intent doesn't mean the fact that some of the most highly paid members of our society being sex workers sends a message about what kind of skills and assets are valuable, and which aren't as valuable.
- hnlmorg 9mo agoUnfortunately that ship has already sailed and immigration wasn’t the reason. It turns out that American citizens can work in the adult industry too and it’s not just immigrants who are capable of earning money from getting naked on camera. ;)
- aforwardslash 9mo agowhat is the difference?
- inanutshellus 9mo agoThe other replies to this show a form of argumentation that's always fascinated me. You say "We should encourage X over Y" and the retorts are * "Y will still exist" * "Y can still be encouraged separately" * "You should tell me the difference between X and Y" * "Hey, I found an X that sometimes acts vaguely similar to Y!" None directly disagree with the original point, but they do imply fault in the original reasoning without providing any proof or requiring any effort. The third one is a classic, the straw man. A concise implication of error in which a good-faith response would be long-winded and boring comparatively. To what end? What are they hoping to get out of disagreeing with someone trying to encouraging our future culture to be one of relative wholesomeness? ... Why take the time out of one's day to say "well... encouraging X is great and all but you know what's better? passive-aggressively working against anyone that suggests it."?
- volkk 9mo agoit's low iq pedantry/contrarianism that pervades the tech industry that i refuse to engage with. it's exactly the same people that will bikeshed every feature into the abyss. i agree and appreciate your sentiment.
- labcomputer 9mo agoIt is disappointing that it is so easy to bamboozle HNers with a straw man argument. The original poster was clearly not making an analogy between professional soccer and only fans creators. To be explicit, the comparisons were: Cinematic actors -> TikTok creators Victoria’s Secret model -> only fans creator Pro soccer -> esports I fail to see how the culture of our country will be negatively impacted by any of those changes. Comparing Cristiano Renaldo to OnlyFans is a straw man because that specific comparison was never suggested, except by the “rebuttal”
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- volkk 9mo agoI don't believe the rigidity of the comparisons matter within the broad context of my point. Regardless of whether OP didn't directly compare pro soccer to OF, the point is that allowing the degradation of expectations of Visas will only incentivize low effort crap. And yes, one can sit here and argue all day that OF fans, or TikTok creators are the same thing as Victorias secret models or Cinematic actors (and I would argue that's far from true) but I think most of us can all feel societal erosion happening and the decline of average IQs and the fact that a huge generation of growing young adults can barely read. Let's not pretend this has nothing to do with multiple epidemics like porn addiction, gambling, and general disregard of trying to better yourself because 90% of people are using 80% of their days staring at said TikTok creators
- iwontberude 9mo agoNever, none of this shit matters
- XorNot 9mo agoWhat's wrong with an OnlyFans contributor? It's a self-employed job that services a demand within the economy and pays taxes. It's pretty close to the ideal job an immigrant can have since the product is already globalized but the revenue is not - i.e. an OnlyFans influencer with an American audience who moves to America is now bringing that income back into the economy via taxes and spending, or if they have an international audience they are attracting foreign dollars into your economy and strengthening your currency position.
- bigstrat2003 9mo agoSex work (OF or otherwise) is unsavory, that's what. You can't stop it but there's zero reason we should be going out of our way to grant visas to sex workers.
- gjm11 9mo ago> there's zero reason The comment you are replying to articulated, I think rather clearly, one reason why maybe we should. I think what you actually mean is that the reasons not to ("sex work is unsavory") outweigh the reasons to ("sex work is going to happen anyway and if some of the people doing it move to the US then they will spend their money and pay their taxes in the US and contribute to the economy there"). Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but I don't think you should say "there's zero reason" when in fact there obviously are reasons and you just think other countervailing reasons matter more.
- bluescrn 9mo agoExtracting money from horny young men with an illusion of intimacy/friendship just doesn't seem ethical. Or good for society as a whole. Especially when you've got streamers using sites like Twitch, aimed at younger gamers, promoting their OnlyFans porn. The regular porn industry is bad enough (https://traffickinghub.com/ https://traffickinghub.com/), but at least the content is non-interactive, there's no pretence of friendship/connection.
- amelius 9mo ago
- eudamoniac 9mo agoThey don't believe in the concept of a culture improving or declining. It's an axiom of a certain ideology that no culture can be inferior to another.
- majani 9mo agoThe more I hear about culture, the more I think it seems like the new age mysticism of the right
- TitaRusell 9mo agoYou should look into Ivanka Trump. It's quite funny.
- testacc74 9mo agoI see no difference in Cristiano Ronaldo and a porn star and an influencer and whatever you name it. They are all idols that sell stories for people to project their own thoughts and desires onto and get emotional. I would be more worry about my kid believing in celebrities, regardless of who they are. And the American mainstream culture is filthy anyway. As the old French joke once said the difference of yogurt and the us is that if you leave yogurt for a coupled of hundred years they would develop culture.
- mpalmer 9mo agoIn the interest of fairness, can you really say different about "mainstream" French culture?
- testacc74 9mo agoWell I don't know much about French aside from the joke but Cannes obviously has way better taste than Hollywood. The neat part is, with social media and global internet, culture are generally degenerating regardless of countries. If I were American citizen(gladly Im not) I might as well just let them in to get some tax money, and potentially see if the industry can be used as a soft propaganda machine. Just like Hollywood.
- throwaway2037 9mo agoThere are hundreds of small film festivals all over the United States each year. The biggest that I know is probably Sundance Film Festival. They have just as much "taste" (whatever that means) as Cannes (Film Festival). France also produces lots of shitty French language films that never leave the French-speaking world. Canal+ is the gold standard for French language film production.
- testacc74 9mo agofilm nerds gonna films nerds. What I mean was Plame vs Oscar since bro was asking mainstream sorry for the confusion. And just bcz French do shit movies too doesn't invalidate the statement sadly. Don't get me wrong. Nor do I think French is that superior.