9 ms·

Pricing like an iPad, fewer apps than Android tablets, and no way to run legacy Windows applications. It's hard to see what the selling point is here.

MatthewPhillips 14y ago
$100 cheaper than an iPad.
- Synaesthesia 14y ago
  iPad 2 can be bought from $399, and the $499+ iPads have a Retina display, this is only 1366x768.
- Toshio 14y ago
  $100 more expensive than an iPad 2.
  - MatthewPhillips 14y ago
    New things cost more than old things.
    - adrr 14y ago
      Its more equivalent to an Ipad 2 than the Ipad 3 since it doesn't have a retina like screen. The Surface pro has the screen where pixels aren't visible. I do wonder if the surface will be more reliable than a xbox 360. I'm on my second one and it just broke again. Microsoft isn't know for reliable devices and as a business, i can't have tablets die on my employees. With apple, i haven't had any issues with three year old ipad that is used daily.
      - dpark 14y ago
        > I do wonder if the surface will be more reliable than a xbox 360. I'm on my second one and it just broke again. Microsoft isn't know for reliable devices and as a business, i can't have tablets die on my employees. With apple, i haven't had any issues with three year old ipad that is used daily. Well if we're trading anecdotes, I went through 3 Macbook Pros in 3 years. Two screens broke and one trackpad stopped working. One of the headphone jacks also broke. Apparently the issues I hit were fairly common, at least on the generations I had. This doesn't mean Apple makes bad hardware. It means that their hardware isn't perfect (no one's is), and that I got unlucky. My wife has a Dell laptop that's years old and has no problems except that the battery needs replacing. Anecdotes don't count for much. Disclosure: Microsoft employee
- takluyver 14y ago
  $100 cheaper than an iPad with equivalent storage, but if customers compare the base model of each, they're the same. Not to mention that Apple's website offers the previous model for $100 less.
- mtgx 14y ago
  We'll have to wait and see if a big part of that storage is not used by the Windows OS, which is much larger than iOS, unless they don't count that storage, but they might. Also, it still has a regular resolution. I would expect at least a 1080p resolution at that price. The 9" Kindle Fire has one, and it sells for $300. That's $200 difference,and the Surface still doesn't have that high of a resolution.
timthorn 14y ago
It runs Office.
- mtgx 14y ago
  iPad and Android will get Office in spring, too, and it will probably cost $30 at most, otherwise no one will get it, and moving them to these 2 platforms would have been a pointless exercise. But I still fail to see how this is a major selling point on a tablet. I'm sure Quick Office and Apple's office suite provide more than enough functionality for most people, and an experience that isn't too cumbersome. But what bothers me most about it when people mention this is that they seem to think that because it has Office, it just washes away all the app advantage that the iPad or even Android have on tablets. And that's nowhere near being true. The Surface does have a lower value because of lack of apps, and that should be reflected in the price. There's little reason in getting a $500 Windows RT tablet over a $250 Nexus 7 (half the price, same performance).
  - JimmaDaRustla 14y ago
    I think you underestimate the dominance of MS Office, and the ability to use it as a selling point.
    - vetinari 14y ago
      On tablet? No. Office requires high precision input devices (i.e. keyboard and mouse), which are precisely the devices that tablets do not have. Tablets are consumption devices; for productivity, you will still want laptop or desktop - without Metro.
      - dpark 14y ago
        > Office requires high precision input devices (i.e. keyboard and mouse), which are precisely the devices that tablets do not have. Touch cover or type cover, perhaps. I haven't used either of these yet, but I believe this is one of the niches they are intended to fill.
JimmaDaRustla 14y ago
Comes with the best authoring product free. Micro SD USB Stand
JoelSutherland 14y ago
They could have released this with an Atom processor at the same price. Windows RT is such a huge gamble for Microsoft. It will either sell enough copies to push developers to Metro or turn a lot of people off to Windows 8 before the "Pro" tablets even come out.
- WrkInProgress 14y ago
  The Surface Pro may be coming out 3 months later but there will be full fledged Windows 8 devices from other companies in November.
nnq 14y ago
Isn't this supposed to be expensive, to be in the place where 90% of other Windows RT tablet manufacturers will look UP to, but cut down on little details to keep the price low and another 10% of them to take it as a lowest feature set and build up from it for the PURE LUXURY segment above? (I know, this is not a strategy to sell a lot of products, but it's a good strategy for building a thriving and healthy ecosystem around the product, and Microsoft seems to get this more and more, same as they seem to get open-source on the Azure and to open up in other ways... they finally realized that they are A DINOSAUR (more in the size meaning than in the backwardsness) and they need around them an ecosystem rich enough to support dinosaurs too, in order to survive!)
- takluyver 14y ago
  It's an interesting theory, but Google's experience with Android tablets suggests that it needs a flagship device at a popular price to take off. And in the luxury sector, that price leaves little room below Apple, whose tablets are perceived as the gold standard. Also, perusing recent announcements, OEMs don't seem to have much interest in going for lower prices. I guess the cheaper tablets will come post-launch, but they'll be on the defensive against Android tablets.
  - nnq 14y ago
    I think Google aimed for the "below iPad" segment from the beginning and tend to think this was a smart move for them as they achieved fast growth. ...but Ms seems to be directly targeting the iPad segment, because pricewise this is not the "luxury segment" anymore, it's the segment of the users that actually want to do WORK, not just consume entertainment, on these devices and Ms wants them because they will spend more on all the productivity tools they need and they will be able to buy from Ms.
- simba-hiiipower 14y ago
  i think that’s the point most people are missing. while i personally would have liked to see it priced a bit lower (starting at $400 - $450 would have felt about right to me), i can totally see why they didn’t and i think those arguing for a lower price are being too short-sighted. this isn’t just the launch of a single device, it’s also effectively a launch of a new platform, and the success of the latter is far more important.. as they said from day one (and as i'm sure they were repeatedly emphasizing to their hardware partners over the past few months), they aren’t going to undercut OEMs on price. which makes total sense. they’re not Apple; it’s going to take more than one device to grow the platform and they’re playing to where they always play in the market: offering Windows on as wide a variety of devices and form-factors as possible (now also including some built in-house). undercutting other offerings may have boosted Surface sales in the near-term, but overtime it would have probably crippled broader adoption of Windows RT by alienating the OEMs that are critical in pushing it. the general argument for a cheap(er) Surface RT is that it’s needed to help grow the Windows Store. while i think it would help to some extent, most of that comes in just the fact that it’s out there, as a flagship device, representing the platform in the market. i think their approach of relying on the large (soon-to-be) Windows 8 install base to incentivize developers is a far sounder strategy for building it out.. even at a lower price point, a few million additional Surface RT units (maybe) aren’t going to have as large of an impact on demand for Windows Store Apps as the hundreds of millions of devices that will eventually be running Windows 8; what it would have done though is likely alienate the OEMs that would otherwise be pushing those sales, and eventually Windows RT sales down the road.
halo 14y ago
Superior industrial design and user experience. Over the years, I've seen a lot of people say that Microsoft should adopt Apple's business model: abandon backwards compatibility, compete on the high-end rather than price and focus on industrial design and user experience. They've done just that. Let's see if it sells.
nilsbunger 14y ago
I can't argue with that. But the pricing isn't surprising. Apple doesn't make that much money on the iPad, and they have an incredibly efficient supply chain. At the same quality level, it's hard for anyone to undercut apple on price on iPad, unless you do a 0-margin product (google, amazon). In contrast, iPhone has lots of margin, so it's relatively easy for other players.
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  > Apple doesn't make that much money on the iPad Hmmm... I might be wrong, but I thought they have HUGE margins. You know, like 40%? Keep in mind that the most popular iPad, 32GB 4G is $729. The $499 model is not the most popular one (at least according to the analysts).
  - WrkInProgress 14y ago
    Do you have a source for that ? For some reason I find that hard to believe: that the most expensive iPad is the most popular one as opposed to to the 16 GB WIFI only version.
    - pooriaazimi 14y ago
      I can't find the article now (stupid Google shows just ads and links to Amazon or Apple when I search for something like "iPad most popular model"), but here's one that claims 64GB 3G Model was the most popular iPad 2 model on launch: http://gigaom.com/apple/most-popular-ipad-2-model-is-also-the-most-expensive/ http://gigaom.com/apple/most-popular-ipad-2-model-is-also-th... Arguably, early adopters are different than "late"-adopters, but still... The "analysis" that I remember was for iPad 3, and it was a few months after the launch.
- benlower 14y ago
  Not sure what your definition of "that much money" is :-) The margins are estimated to be ~37% - ~50% depending on the model. http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/New-iPad-32-GB-4G-Carries-364-35-Bill-of-Materials.aspx http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/New-iPad-32-GB-4... Those estimated margins aren't as high as iPhone (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone5-Carries-$199-BOM-Virtual-Teardown-Reveals.aspx http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone5-Carries-...) but are still pretty damn good :-)

MatthewPhillips 14y ago

$100 cheaper than an iPad.

Synaesthesia 14y ago
iPad 2 can be bought from $399, and the $499+ iPads have a Retina display, this is only 1366x768.
Toshio 14y ago
$100 more expensive than an iPad 2.
- MatthewPhillips 14y ago
  New things cost more than old things.
  - adrr 14y ago
    Its more equivalent to an Ipad 2 than the Ipad 3 since it doesn't have a retina like screen. The Surface pro has the screen where pixels aren't visible. I do wonder if the surface will be more reliable than a xbox 360. I'm on my second one and it just broke again. Microsoft isn't know for reliable devices and as a business, i can't have tablets die on my employees. With apple, i haven't had any issues with three year old ipad that is used daily.
    - dpark 14y ago
      > I do wonder if the surface will be more reliable than a xbox 360. I'm on my second one and it just broke again. Microsoft isn't know for reliable devices and as a business, i can't have tablets die on my employees. With apple, i haven't had any issues with three year old ipad that is used daily. Well if we're trading anecdotes, I went through 3 Macbook Pros in 3 years. Two screens broke and one trackpad stopped working. One of the headphone jacks also broke. Apparently the issues I hit were fairly common, at least on the generations I had. This doesn't mean Apple makes bad hardware. It means that their hardware isn't perfect (no one's is), and that I got unlucky. My wife has a Dell laptop that's years old and has no problems except that the battery needs replacing. Anecdotes don't count for much. Disclosure: Microsoft employee
takluyver 14y ago
$100 cheaper than an iPad with equivalent storage, but if customers compare the base model of each, they're the same. Not to mention that Apple's website offers the previous model for $100 less.
mtgx 14y ago
We'll have to wait and see if a big part of that storage is not used by the Windows OS, which is much larger than iOS, unless they don't count that storage, but they might. Also, it still has a regular resolution. I would expect at least a 1080p resolution at that price. The 9" Kindle Fire has one, and it sells for $300. That's $200 difference,and the Surface still doesn't have that high of a resolution.

timthorn 14y ago

It runs Office.

mtgx 14y ago
iPad and Android will get Office in spring, too, and it will probably cost $30 at most, otherwise no one will get it, and moving them to these 2 platforms would have been a pointless exercise. But I still fail to see how this is a major selling point on a tablet. I'm sure Quick Office and Apple's office suite provide more than enough functionality for most people, and an experience that isn't too cumbersome. But what bothers me most about it when people mention this is that they seem to think that because it has Office, it just washes away all the app advantage that the iPad or even Android have on tablets. And that's nowhere near being true. The Surface does have a lower value because of lack of apps, and that should be reflected in the price. There's little reason in getting a $500 Windows RT tablet over a $250 Nexus 7 (half the price, same performance).
- JimmaDaRustla 14y ago
  I think you underestimate the dominance of MS Office, and the ability to use it as a selling point.
  - vetinari 14y ago
    On tablet? No. Office requires high precision input devices (i.e. keyboard and mouse), which are precisely the devices that tablets do not have. Tablets are consumption devices; for productivity, you will still want laptop or desktop - without Metro.
    - dpark 14y ago
      > Office requires high precision input devices (i.e. keyboard and mouse), which are precisely the devices that tablets do not have. Touch cover or type cover, perhaps. I haven't used either of these yet, but I believe this is one of the niches they are intended to fill.

JimmaDaRustla 14y ago

Comes with the best authoring product free. Micro SD USB Stand

JoelSutherland 14y ago

They could have released this with an Atom processor at the same price. Windows RT is such a huge gamble for Microsoft. It will either sell enough copies to push developers to Metro or turn a lot of people off to Windows 8 before the "Pro" tablets even come out.

WrkInProgress 14y ago
The Surface Pro may be coming out 3 months later but there will be full fledged Windows 8 devices from other companies in November.

nnq 14y ago

Isn't this supposed to be expensive, to be in the place where 90% of other Windows RT tablet manufacturers will look UP to, but cut down on little details to keep the price low and another 10% of them to take it as a lowest feature set and build up from it for the PURE LUXURY segment above? (I know, this is not a strategy to sell a lot of products, but it's a good strategy for building a thriving and healthy ecosystem around the product, and Microsoft seems to get this more and more, same as they seem to get open-source on the Azure and to open up in other ways... they finally realized that they are A DINOSAUR (more in the size meaning than in the backwardsness) and they need around them an ecosystem rich enough to support dinosaurs too, in order to survive!)

takluyver 14y ago
It's an interesting theory, but Google's experience with Android tablets suggests that it needs a flagship device at a popular price to take off. And in the luxury sector, that price leaves little room below Apple, whose tablets are perceived as the gold standard. Also, perusing recent announcements, OEMs don't seem to have much interest in going for lower prices. I guess the cheaper tablets will come post-launch, but they'll be on the defensive against Android tablets.
- nnq 14y ago
  I think Google aimed for the "below iPad" segment from the beginning and tend to think this was a smart move for them as they achieved fast growth. ...but Ms seems to be directly targeting the iPad segment, because pricewise this is not the "luxury segment" anymore, it's the segment of the users that actually want to do WORK, not just consume entertainment, on these devices and Ms wants them because they will spend more on all the productivity tools they need and they will be able to buy from Ms.
simba-hiiipower 14y ago
i think that’s the point most people are missing. while i personally would have liked to see it priced a bit lower (starting at $400 - $450 would have felt about right to me), i can totally see why they didn’t and i think those arguing for a lower price are being too short-sighted. this isn’t just the launch of a single device, it’s also effectively a launch of a new platform, and the success of the latter is far more important.. as they said from day one (and as i'm sure they were repeatedly emphasizing to their hardware partners over the past few months), they aren’t going to undercut OEMs on price. which makes total sense. they’re not Apple; it’s going to take more than one device to grow the platform and they’re playing to where they always play in the market: offering Windows on as wide a variety of devices and form-factors as possible (now also including some built in-house). undercutting other offerings may have boosted Surface sales in the near-term, but overtime it would have probably crippled broader adoption of Windows RT by alienating the OEMs that are critical in pushing it. the general argument for a cheap(er) Surface RT is that it’s needed to help grow the Windows Store. while i think it would help to some extent, most of that comes in just the fact that it’s out there, as a flagship device, representing the platform in the market. i think their approach of relying on the large (soon-to-be) Windows 8 install base to incentivize developers is a far sounder strategy for building it out.. even at a lower price point, a few million additional Surface RT units (maybe) aren’t going to have as large of an impact on demand for Windows Store Apps as the hundreds of millions of devices that will eventually be running Windows 8; what it would have done though is likely alienate the OEMs that would otherwise be pushing those sales, and eventually Windows RT sales down the road.

halo 14y ago

Superior industrial design and user experience. Over the years, I've seen a lot of people say that Microsoft should adopt Apple's business model: abandon backwards compatibility, compete on the high-end rather than price and focus on industrial design and user experience. They've done just that. Let's see if it sells.

nilsbunger 14y ago

I can't argue with that. But the pricing isn't surprising. Apple doesn't make that much money on the iPad, and they have an incredibly efficient supply chain. At the same quality level, it's hard for anyone to undercut apple on price on iPad, unless you do a 0-margin product (google, amazon). In contrast, iPhone has lots of margin, so it's relatively easy for other players.

pooriaazimi 14y ago
> Apple doesn't make that much money on the iPad Hmmm... I might be wrong, but I thought they have HUGE margins. You know, like 40%? Keep in mind that the most popular iPad, 32GB 4G is $729. The $499 model is not the most popular one (at least according to the analysts).
- WrkInProgress 14y ago
  Do you have a source for that ? For some reason I find that hard to believe: that the most expensive iPad is the most popular one as opposed to to the 16 GB WIFI only version.
  - pooriaazimi 14y ago
    I can't find the article now (stupid Google shows just ads and links to Amazon or Apple when I search for something like "iPad most popular model"), but here's one that claims 64GB 3G Model was the most popular iPad 2 model on launch: http://gigaom.com/apple/most-popular-ipad-2-model-is-also-the-most-expensive/ http://gigaom.com/apple/most-popular-ipad-2-model-is-also-th... Arguably, early adopters are different than "late"-adopters, but still... The "analysis" that I remember was for iPad 3, and it was a few months after the launch.
benlower 14y ago
Not sure what your definition of "that much money" is :-) The margins are estimated to be ~37% - ~50% depending on the model. http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/New-iPad-32-GB-4G-Carries-364-35-Bill-of-Materials.aspx http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/New-iPad-32-GB-4... Those estimated margins aren't as high as iPhone (http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone5-Carries-$199-BOM-Virtual-Teardown-Reveals.aspx http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/iPhone5-Carries-...) but are still pretty damn good :-)