6 ms·
My 3 year old watched TV for the first time for 2 minutes in her life (it was hard hiding it from her in an airplane on an overhead screen) and I can tell that
by rspoerri 9mo ago
My 3 year old watched TV for the first time for 2 minutes in her life (it was hard hiding it from her in an airplane on an overhead screen) and I can tell that TV is generally bad for kids at that age.
- stavros 9mo agoHow can you tell? What's the thing that made you say "this is bad for her", and why is it not the same for you?
- sigmonsays 9mo agotheir vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. it removes stimulation and interaction with the environment and replaces it with sedentary and no physical interactions. While the exact reasons are not common knowledge, knowing TV is bad for toddlers is.
- ncallaway 9mo ago> their vision is still developing and staring at a screen is not good for eye development. Is that true? The American Association of Pediatrics doesn't list that as a concern on their page "Health Effects Of Young Kids Being On Screens Too Long" (which is focused on children aged 2-11). Do you have a source I could review for that claim? https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/health-effects-of-young-kids-being-on-screens-too-long/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente... --- (The AAP page about media recommendations for 0-2 also doesn't say anything about eye-development, but _does_ recommend entirely against screen-time for that age-group except for video conversations with people) https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/center-of-excellence-on-social-media-and-youth-mental-health/qa-portal/qa-portal-library/qa-portal-library-questions/screen-time-for-infants/ https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente...
- bethekidyouwant 9mo agoIt’s bro-science all the way down. What if your environment is a boring room?
- lurking_swe 9mo agoto clarify, too much “near work” for the eyes is a risk for myopia. That includes reading books all day. My point is, watching an educational tv program like PBS for 30 minutes in the evening will not be the cause for your child wearing glasses. The biggest predictor of good vision from the scientific studies is lots of outdoor time. This is most important from ages 6 to 11. https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-influences-myopia-prevention-and-control-a-meta-analysis https://www.myopiaprofile.com/articles/how-outdoor-time-infl...
- loandbehold 9mo agoThere was a time people used think the same about books.
- pessimizer 9mo agoI don't think there was. But even if so, there was a time people used to think the same about drinking antifreeze, too.
- loandbehold 9mo agoThere absolutely was. "reading addiction" was a medical diagnosis in 18th/19th century Europe. And if you read some of the essays about negative effects of reading from this time, it's pretty striking how similar it is to modern views on TV. There was even a German term of that time "Leseseuche" which literally translates as "reading plague".
- pvab3 9mo agoyou ought to read some of the early attacks on the printing press. It sounds like your grandpa complaining about TikTok
- Jblx2 9mo ago- Propylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is also used as a food additive. - Ethylene Glycol -- Antifreeze that is toxic. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TITLE_HDR_3 https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/propylene-glycol#TOC_TI...
- efskap 9mo agoThat's still consumption of images rather than participation in reality. Kids can absolutely read in excess as a form of escapism. Books are easier than dealing with real life when someone else does the thinking and problem solving for you. Certainly great for learning in moderation but you won't learn interpersonal skills or how to ride a bike just by reading about them.
- autoexec 9mo agoBooks can also be harmful if abused. They can be used excessively as escapism. They can contain dangerous harmful messages and manipulation. They can be addictive just like anything else can. Content matters a lot, and anything that makes delivering content easy comes with the risk that it will deliver something harmful. Books, TV, and social media have all been used intentionally to spread harm and encourage addiction. Most adults have at least some chance of protecting themselves, but children don't have those defenses developed. It's a good idea to be aware of every form of media children consume.
- rspoerri 9mo agoShe was so focussed on it and started crying when we hid it after only a very short time. This is not normal a behaviour. This only happens with things that are very addictive (also for example sugar). I do understand that not everybody can do it like that, but if you can create such an environment it's much better for them (in my opinion).
- stavros 9mo agoInteresting, thanks for elaborating.
- rspoerri 9mo agoUnderstanding of what is happening is often very limited. When I read books or talk to her, I sometimes use words that are unknown to her, she only started asking for the meaning of them recently (she just turned 3). So she will probably only understand 20%-30% even when she understands conversations quite well at home. She is still missing cultural context. She is only starting to understand the difference between a living and a stuffed animal. In an animation movie somebody might hit somebody else, which appears funny to an adult. A child might just take this as normal behaviour and repeats it the next time she sees somebody and doesn't understand why it's not funny. Understanding the real world is difficult enough for her.
- stavros 9mo agoBut that's an issue with the content, not the medium, right? There will be shows geared exactly towards kid that age that teach them the right lessons.
- rspoerri 9mo agoI allow her to watch me work (mostly text documents), and we often search for images of an animal or object that she wants printed (today we searched for stars). Also, she can video-phone the grandparents, which is not that addictive from my experience. My screensaver (animated colours) is problematic. Watching a video of herself or the grandparents on the smartphone can be problematic as well, but at least they are typically only a few seconds. So yes, it's a thing of the medium. But most media for kids are colourful, highly animated, childlike characters and voices. Optimized to catch their attention for a long time. Also, the media for kids are barely matching the level of the kids state of knowledge. I use words she understands describing things she asks me about, a TV show never does that.
- asielen 9mo agoI won't argue that it is a universal truth but it has played out the same for my kids and my friends groups kids. They treat it like a drug and lose all emotional regulation. I don't believe all screen time is bad, but it is something you have to teach them to regulate and 3 year olds and younger are just bad at regulating emotion in general. Teaching them to do this is just part of parenting. One of the most important things we can teach our kids is that it is okay to be bored. In fact it is great to be bored sometimes. On the other hand, being a parent is hard and keeping your sanity is important in order to be a good parent. So if it helps you be a better parent all other times, it could be worth it. The issue is when screens are used to in place of parenting. Parents using it as a way to fuel their own screen addiction. On the other hand, for me airplanes are a special case and all rules go out the window to help keep the kid calm.
- mock-possum 9mo agoHard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. As a child I used to hate the feeling of boredom, knowing that I could be doing something I wanted to do. As an adult I am hardly ever bored, and it’s a strict improvement, never have I ever found myself wishing I could just go back to being bored. Boredom is such a negative emotion that learning to manage it effectively becomes an essential life skill. Learning to set yourself up for success / be prepared required forethought to anticipate the possibility of boredom and come prepared to deal with it. Acting out on boredom is childish, learning to keep yourself occupied so you don’t become bored is mature.
- GJim 9mo ago> Hard disagree with ‘great to be bored’ - being bored is one of the worst possible feelings, that you’re wasting your time doing nothing when there is almost certainly something you would rather be doing. You <---> The point Being bored is what inspires a kid to daydream for themselves and/or get off their arse and try something new. Being constantly "entertained" by a TV or fondle slab is an anathema to creativity and independent thought. For children and adults.
- red-iron-pine 9mo agonot that guy, but it would cause our kids to completely emotionally deregulate, and become fixated on the TV for a while. and most TV is not great for people. there is a reason depression and anxiety correlate with TV time
- pizzafeelsright 9mo agoMy kids never had tablets or individual access to screens and yet we have tv and movies and now video games as the children age. The current rule is video games require 1 minute of exercise for one minute of usage. This is a self regulating time limit that has worked well.
- cheald 9mo agoOh, I like this a lot. My kids are quite physically active, but they do love to binge video games, too. I like the idea of letting them "buy" more leisure time at their own discretion through self-disciplined work.
- peteey 9mo agoGenerally agreed. Though, Daniel Tiger and Paw Patrol should be judged differently. Paw Patrol is mindless and addictive. If you desperately need a distraction, PBS shows are less bad. A few moments of pacification may be worth not disturbing the other airline travelers. Daniel Tiger may be helpful to parents too. Interacting with children is not intuitive. Techniques from PBS shows have helped me. For example, singing to kids about trying food is move effective than a well reasoned monologue.
- Auracle 9mo agoI'm not going to praise Paw Patrol as something on the level of Daniel Tiger or Bluey, but it's not completely mindless. It shows problem solving, teamwork, and encourages being helpful.
- cheald 9mo agoIt's not entirely devoid of value, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Junk food contains healthy ingredients, too.
- gffrd 9mo agoMy gripe with Paw Patrol is that everything is met with a cheery "sir, yes sir!" and then the show stops short of ever showing real challenge, friction, risk, failure, or loss. It's a missed opportunity.
- 01100011 9mo agoDon't overthink it. Some of us were raised on Looney Tunes and MTV and somehow still figure out normal social interactions and do quite well in life. 40 years ago my parents had a close friend with a young and irresponsible wife who raised their child in front of a TV. At 4 years old the child could barely speak. My parents began babysitting and helping socialize her. Now she's a successful businessperson herself and is doing quite well in life. Studies on the impact of media on children are informative but don't lose sight of the fact that kids are adaptable and will overcome most kinds of sub-optimal upbringing.
- scelerat 9mo agosimilar observation here, with a 2.33-year old. In small doses we've exposed him to videos[1], never unsupervised, never as a parental substitute, but there are a class of them (which happen to be the lowest-effort, highest-contrast, most insipidly soundtracked CGI dreck I can possibly imagine) which are absolute baby crack. He watched some a few months ago and now he can't get them out of his head. It has gotten to the point where we are simply at a hard "no" about any videos because it always devolves into an inconsolable tantrum tearfully begging for more video crack. [1] kid loves trucks and garbage trucks and trains, and so for a while it was fun to pull up a video of real life trucks and trains and watch them and talk about them. We'd read a book about trucks. He'd point and say, "what's that do," and I'd explain, then say, "wait! I can show you." Which was fun, until it became triggering.
- red-iron-pine 9mo agowe had generally the same experience but with disney princesses was sort of a crutch for a sick kid or when things were slammed (e.g. kid 2 or 3 was also sick or we were otherwise busy) but we had to limit them heavily. we also made the mistake of playing her the soundtracks, which ended up with listening to Aladdin or Frozen on repeat. All told not bad music compared to the drek they're putting out on YT now...
- mherkender 9mo agoI find the type of show makes a big difference, finding something thoughtful is important (and hard). We also like to set a time limit, usually 1-2 episodes to make the transition easy. Also, no tablets, just commercial-free TV so we can watch with them. They re-enact fun/positive stuff from shows and don't get locked in or desperate for TV. Seems to work for us.
- p2detar 9mo agoIn some European countries like Germany, there are recommendations by institutions like the Federal Center for the "Protection of Children and Young People from Harmful Media (BzKJ)" about TV time or screen time in general [0]: - 0 to 3 years: Ideally, no screen time at all. If media is used, then only in very short intervals and not every day. - 4 to 5 years: Up to half an hour of screen time per day. - 6 to 9 years: Up to one hour of screen time per day. - For older children aged 10 and above, it is advisable to agree on a weekly time allowance. 0 - https://familienportal.de/familienportal/lebenslagen/kinder-jugendliche/kinder-jugendschutz/wie-viel-medienkonsum-ist-fuer-kinder-und-jugendliche-angemessen-und-wie-kann-ich-mein-kind-vor-den-risiken-im-internet-schuetzen--125776 https://familienportal.de/familienportal/lebenslagen/kinder-...
- nashashmi 9mo agoI would watch up to two hours of tv a day right after school. TV time was up to 5 o clock. Earlier ages had school close at 3:30. Later ages had school close at 2:30. It was a good stress buster. And after that it was homework. Sometimes we would go out and play instead. I agree with the 6-9 years old tv time. It is about what we did. But the 4-5 years? I know all my friends learned the most from tv this way. I did not because we didn’t have cable. We watched pbs.
- Cthulhu_ 9mo agoI'm still in the "it depends" denial, but I grew up in a different era, where there was only something on TV for a few hours a day. Half an hour or 45 minutes of stuff aimed at kids at 3 age cohorts, toddler stuff, Sesame Street, "youth news", and an educational / entertainment / sketch show called Klokhuis (apple core / clock house). But that was once a day, during weekdays, and no re-runs. Watching and re-watching Sesame Street clips back to back is IMO just as brainrotty to kids as the other brainrot going on at the moment.
- nullify88 9mo agoI'm very impressed by the range of shows available on DR (Danish broadcasting). Shows about emotion, social etiquette, animals, machines and other intrigue. We do limit time, use it to reward good behaviour, and use it to recuperate after a day at nursery. Each night the kids get a book, and we usually play music as we prepare and eat dinner. I believe a balance of all mediums is healthy. I look forward to introducing video games to them.