4 ms·

I wonder whether this could be a touchpad malfunction, causing phantom clicks that move focus. To diagnose, you could temporarily disable it and use an external

I wonder whether this could be a touchpad malfunction, causing phantom clicks that move focus. To diagnose, you could temporarily disable it and use an external mouse.

Avamander 9mo ago
External mice also suck with macOS though.
- Arainach 9mo ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvotes, it's absolutely true. For a very long time you couldn't even set different scroll directions for external mice and the touchpad - even if it's (maybe? I forget) supported now it's always been an area Apple didn't care about and was far behind Windows and Linux.
  - mercanlIl 9mo ago
    I assume it’s getting down votes because it’s off-topic. The parent comment was suggesting external mice as a temporary measure to debug the intermittent issue they’re facing. Whether or not external micr suck on MacOS doesn’t really matter. The objective was to diagnose an issue.
    - Avamander 9mo ago
      Well, if the suggestion is to use an alternative for a while to diagnose an issue that causes equivalent or even worse issues, then it might not be(come) very debuggable.
  - anemoknee 9mo ago
    It's not supported as of now. Tools like Scroll Reverser are still needed to specify scrolling behavior between the touchpad and an external mouse.
  - AndrewDavis 9mo ago
    Recent switcher to macos. I can't find a way to separately set mouse acceleration and scroll wheel momentum. I use a trackball for RSI reasons, in order to get across the screen in a single flick means high sensitivity, mouse acceleration is absolutely needed to be able to make small movements. This makes my scroll wheel useless because a single scroll moves the page about 1/10 of a line
    - NBJack 9mo ago
      I will pile on here and claim Apple is shockingly hostile to accessibility. From the weird way tabs work for focus to the limited options for text clarity, to the lack of control for mice customization, it feels like it has been a low item on their priorities for some time.
    - spockz 9mo ago
      Have you tried Better Mouse? IIRC, it can set different settings per HID.
    - reboot81 9mo ago
      I cant use mice without https://linearmouse.app https://linearmouse.app to adjust acceleration. (0$)
  - mavamaarten 9mo ago
    Oh is that supported now? I've always used some tool (ScrollReverser) to fix this.
    - Arainach 9mo ago
      Another comment suggests that third-party tools are still required and that Apple still hasn't added support for this, which makes me wonder if anyone at Apple uses an external mouse or if this is a scenario they literally don't care about.
  - shantara 9mo ago
    That was my experience as well. macOS adopted the iOS UI pattern of list cells using a swipe gesture to show a delete button and other actions. This doesn’t work with mouse and you have to use the right click context menu. This is a constant annoyance when switching between the Mac with an external mouse and the one with a trackpad, as it breaks your muscle memory.
  - dent9 9mo ago
    Gotta use Scroll Reverser unfortunately. Sometimes even that breaks though. Sad
    - vehemenz 9mo ago
      Shortcuts.app and AppleScript works for this.
- TheCleric 9mo ago
  I have a Logitech MX Vertical and it works flawlessly.
- varenc 9mo ago
  I have a great time using my G502 on macOS, but I absolutely rely on SteerMouse to configure its behavior.
  - daniel_sim 9mo ago
    the steermouse g502 combo is just incredible. been my staple for years
- jjtheblunt 9mo ago
  i have a logitech mx something and it's absolutely awesome.
  - NBJack 9mo ago
    Those are great but often expensive mice. I wish the Apple tax didn't extend to third party hardware, but here we are.
    - PaulDavisThe1st 9mo ago
      It's not really an Apple tax. Those are just great mice, and I've used variations of them on Linux for more than a decade. (except that my latest one has just suffered catastrophic battery failure)
      - dvdbloc 9mo ago
        Catastrophic? Like a battery fire?
        PaulDavisThe1st 9mo ago
        It has just stopped holding charge. It can be 100% charged according to Solaar, unplug the cable and it is discharged in < 1 minute. Warranty replacement on the way.
  - plorg 9mo ago
    I loved my Performance MX. I finally had to replace it at work (software wouldn't install after migrating to Windows 11) and the MX Master 3 I got seems much ergonomically worse to me. I also am not a fan of the thumb wheel replacing buttons. Only thing I won't complain about is that the resolution is better. From testing my coworkers' mouses (older Masters) I'm pretty sure they have each been a step downhill from my perspective. My sister in law gave me her G700S to fix the main button microswitches, and she convinced me that it's the apotheosis of the design - it's what should have replaced the Performance MX. No soft-touch plastic, extra buttons, and the higher resolution sensor. I'll probably have to get one off eBay. Edit: also all of the Masters have non-user-replaceable batteries.
- Joeri 9mo ago
  You have to use third party software to configure them properly, then they work fine. I used logitech’s drivers for a while but they’ve become the biggest pile of garbage I have ever seen call itself a driver. I now use BetterMouse instead.
- vladvasiliu 9mo ago
  Depends on the mice. As a sibling says, Logitech mice with their drivers work great. The app isn't great and loads a boatload of javascript crap. Can't vouch for bettermouse, never tried it. Another option which sidesteps the Logi Options crap is Logitech "gaming" mice. These have an integrated memory that actually remembers the configuration set by the driver. So, you only have to put up with the shitty experience once, and then the mouse remembers those settings wherever you use it. Some models can actually remember multiple setting sets. One of my best mice is a G700s. I haven't used the Logitech G crap in like... ten years? The mouse is still going strong. Its only issue is that it goes through batteries like a hot knife through butter. I like it so much, I actually bought a second one for work. Got it used, since they weren't making them anymore.
  - crucialfelix 9mo ago
    The window losing focus but OP reports is due to this: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Options-and-G-HUB-macOS-Certificate-Issue https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Op... Which would only happen if you are using it wireless. It happened to me this morning.
  - pjerem 9mo ago
    > Logitech mice with their drivers work great. That's not macos fault in this case, it's just that Logitech mouses (MX Master at least) doesn't act well at all without driver. Like, for scrolling, it's like the mouse is sending raw smooth scrolling each time you just touch the wheel and without the driver that presumably fake it on the computer side, there is no synchronisation between your actual scroll and the steps you physically feel in the wheel.
shlant 9mo ago
a touchpad malfunction that only happens after an OSX update?
- plorkyeran 9mo ago
  Yes, there is a very large amount of software that's involved in making touchpads work and that software is part of the OS.
  - bqmjjx0kac 9mo ago
    I once had a vexing problem with my old Intel MacBook — macOS failed to boot, but Windows seemed totally normal. Can't possibly be a hardware failure, right? The symptoms disappeared after replacing the SATA cable!
    - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
      This reminds of the infamous GPU issues of the unibody models (the last non-retina ones). I have one such 2012 15" MBP which has a dedicated GPU which, as I understand it, has developed soldering issues. Non-Mac OSs don't know how to turn this GPU on out of the box, so it just sits there without bothering anybody. But, for some reason, MacOS turns it on and it craps the bed, rendering the machine unusable.
      - terinjokes 9mo ago
        I had the 2010 version of this model, with the same symptoms starting in mid 2011. I would get 5-8 crashes a day from the GPU being on the fritz. Apple ended up replacing the mainboard in a free out-of-AppleCare repair. I never had the problem again and I used the machine regularly until about 2018.
        vladvasiliu 9mo ago
        In my case, it lasted one or two more years, and I only learned about the repair after they stopped offering it. By that time, the machine had already been replaced for other, unrelated reasons.
lloeki 9mo ago
I have similar behaviour on a Mac Mini, and only since Tahoe.
cpt_sobel 9mo ago
I've had the same issue while using external mouse and keyboard, so I definitely don't touch the touchpad.
- two_handfuls 9mo ago
  But was the touchpad disabled at the time? Phantom touches could happen even if your hand is not near the touchpad.
  - cpt_sobel 9mo ago
    My hand was at least 40cm away from the touchpad, no it wasn't disabled.
whywhywhywhy 9mo ago
It's not, it's just increasingly badly made. Started creeping in the release before Sequoia

I wonder whether this could be a touchpad malfunction, causing phantom clicks that move focus. To diagnose, you could temporarily disable it and use an external mouse.

Avamander 9mo ago

External mice also suck with macOS though.

Arainach 9mo ago
Not sure why this is getting downvotes, it's absolutely true. For a very long time you couldn't even set different scroll directions for external mice and the touchpad - even if it's (maybe? I forget) supported now it's always been an area Apple didn't care about and was far behind Windows and Linux.
- mercanlIl 9mo ago
  I assume it’s getting down votes because it’s off-topic. The parent comment was suggesting external mice as a temporary measure to debug the intermittent issue they’re facing. Whether or not external micr suck on MacOS doesn’t really matter. The objective was to diagnose an issue.
  - Avamander 9mo ago
    Well, if the suggestion is to use an alternative for a while to diagnose an issue that causes equivalent or even worse issues, then it might not be(come) very debuggable.
- anemoknee 9mo ago
  It's not supported as of now. Tools like Scroll Reverser are still needed to specify scrolling behavior between the touchpad and an external mouse.
- AndrewDavis 9mo ago
  Recent switcher to macos. I can't find a way to separately set mouse acceleration and scroll wheel momentum. I use a trackball for RSI reasons, in order to get across the screen in a single flick means high sensitivity, mouse acceleration is absolutely needed to be able to make small movements. This makes my scroll wheel useless because a single scroll moves the page about 1/10 of a line
  - NBJack 9mo ago
    I will pile on here and claim Apple is shockingly hostile to accessibility. From the weird way tabs work for focus to the limited options for text clarity, to the lack of control for mice customization, it feels like it has been a low item on their priorities for some time.
  - spockz 9mo ago
    Have you tried Better Mouse? IIRC, it can set different settings per HID.
  - reboot81 9mo ago
    I cant use mice without https://linearmouse.app https://linearmouse.app to adjust acceleration. (0$)
- mavamaarten 9mo ago
  Oh is that supported now? I've always used some tool (ScrollReverser) to fix this.
  - Arainach 9mo ago
    Another comment suggests that third-party tools are still required and that Apple still hasn't added support for this, which makes me wonder if anyone at Apple uses an external mouse or if this is a scenario they literally don't care about.
- shantara 9mo ago
  That was my experience as well. macOS adopted the iOS UI pattern of list cells using a swipe gesture to show a delete button and other actions. This doesn’t work with mouse and you have to use the right click context menu. This is a constant annoyance when switching between the Mac with an external mouse and the one with a trackpad, as it breaks your muscle memory.
- dent9 9mo ago
  Gotta use Scroll Reverser unfortunately. Sometimes even that breaks though. Sad
  - vehemenz 9mo ago
    Shortcuts.app and AppleScript works for this.
TheCleric 9mo ago
I have a Logitech MX Vertical and it works flawlessly.
varenc 9mo ago
I have a great time using my G502 on macOS, but I absolutely rely on SteerMouse to configure its behavior.
- daniel_sim 9mo ago
  the steermouse g502 combo is just incredible. been my staple for years
jjtheblunt 9mo ago
i have a logitech mx something and it's absolutely awesome.
- NBJack 9mo ago
  Those are great but often expensive mice. I wish the Apple tax didn't extend to third party hardware, but here we are.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 9mo ago
    It's not really an Apple tax. Those are just great mice, and I've used variations of them on Linux for more than a decade. (except that my latest one has just suffered catastrophic battery failure)
    - dvdbloc 9mo ago
      Catastrophic? Like a battery fire?
      - PaulDavisThe1st 9mo ago
        It has just stopped holding charge. It can be 100% charged according to Solaar, unplug the cable and it is discharged in < 1 minute. Warranty replacement on the way.
- plorg 9mo ago
  I loved my Performance MX. I finally had to replace it at work (software wouldn't install after migrating to Windows 11) and the MX Master 3 I got seems much ergonomically worse to me. I also am not a fan of the thumb wheel replacing buttons. Only thing I won't complain about is that the resolution is better. From testing my coworkers' mouses (older Masters) I'm pretty sure they have each been a step downhill from my perspective. My sister in law gave me her G700S to fix the main button microswitches, and she convinced me that it's the apotheosis of the design - it's what should have replaced the Performance MX. No soft-touch plastic, extra buttons, and the higher resolution sensor. I'll probably have to get one off eBay. Edit: also all of the Masters have non-user-replaceable batteries.
Joeri 9mo ago
You have to use third party software to configure them properly, then they work fine. I used logitech’s drivers for a while but they’ve become the biggest pile of garbage I have ever seen call itself a driver. I now use BetterMouse instead.
vladvasiliu 9mo ago
Depends on the mice. As a sibling says, Logitech mice with their drivers work great. The app isn't great and loads a boatload of javascript crap. Can't vouch for bettermouse, never tried it. Another option which sidesteps the Logi Options crap is Logitech "gaming" mice. These have an integrated memory that actually remembers the configuration set by the driver. So, you only have to put up with the shitty experience once, and then the mouse remembers those settings wherever you use it. Some models can actually remember multiple setting sets. One of my best mice is a G700s. I haven't used the Logitech G crap in like... ten years? The mouse is still going strong. Its only issue is that it goes through batteries like a hot knife through butter. I like it so much, I actually bought a second one for work. Got it used, since they weren't making them anymore.
- crucialfelix 9mo ago
  The window losing focus but OP reports is due to this: https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Options-and-G-HUB-macOS-Certificate-Issue https://support.logi.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493733117847-Op... Which would only happen if you are using it wireless. It happened to me this morning.
- pjerem 9mo ago
  > Logitech mice with their drivers work great. That's not macos fault in this case, it's just that Logitech mouses (MX Master at least) doesn't act well at all without driver. Like, for scrolling, it's like the mouse is sending raw smooth scrolling each time you just touch the wheel and without the driver that presumably fake it on the computer side, there is no synchronisation between your actual scroll and the steps you physically feel in the wheel.

shlant 9mo ago

a touchpad malfunction that only happens after an OSX update?

plorkyeran 9mo ago
Yes, there is a very large amount of software that's involved in making touchpads work and that software is part of the OS.
- bqmjjx0kac 9mo ago
  I once had a vexing problem with my old Intel MacBook — macOS failed to boot, but Windows seemed totally normal. Can't possibly be a hardware failure, right? The symptoms disappeared after replacing the SATA cable!
  - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
    This reminds of the infamous GPU issues of the unibody models (the last non-retina ones). I have one such 2012 15" MBP which has a dedicated GPU which, as I understand it, has developed soldering issues. Non-Mac OSs don't know how to turn this GPU on out of the box, so it just sits there without bothering anybody. But, for some reason, MacOS turns it on and it craps the bed, rendering the machine unusable.
    - terinjokes 9mo ago
      I had the 2010 version of this model, with the same symptoms starting in mid 2011. I would get 5-8 crashes a day from the GPU being on the fritz. Apple ended up replacing the mainboard in a free out-of-AppleCare repair. I never had the problem again and I used the machine regularly until about 2018.
      - vladvasiliu 9mo ago
        In my case, it lasted one or two more years, and I only learned about the repair after they stopped offering it. By that time, the machine had already been replaced for other, unrelated reasons.

lloeki 9mo ago

I have similar behaviour on a Mac Mini, and only since Tahoe.

cpt_sobel 9mo ago

I've had the same issue while using external mouse and keyboard, so I definitely don't touch the touchpad.

two_handfuls 9mo ago
But was the touchpad disabled at the time? Phantom touches could happen even if your hand is not near the touchpad.
- cpt_sobel 9mo ago
  My hand was at least 40cm away from the touchpad, no it wasn't disabled.

whywhywhywhy 9mo ago

It's not, it's just increasingly badly made. Started creeping in the release before Sequoia