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Waymo is not an adas. There’s nothing close to FSD 14 abilities out there for consumers. And your stats comparing to waymo are made up and debunked in the very

Waymo is not an adas. There’s nothing close to FSD 14 abilities out there for consumers. And your stats comparing to waymo are made up and debunked in the very reddit thread they came from

cyberax 9mo ago
Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league. So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better. FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions. If I try to turn it on, it attempts to kill me at least once on my route from my office to my home. So other car makers quite sensibly avoided it, until they perfected the technology.
- ronnier 9mo ago
  This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was something better then I’d buy it, but there’s not.
  - terminalshort 9mo ago
    The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.
    - qwerpy 9mo ago
      I'll post the 7 billion miles of stats here (https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety) but then the objections will be "it's Tesla of course they lie" and the debunked "they turn FSD off right before an accident".
      - FireBeyond 9mo ago
        How does FSD function, or will it even activate, in a Pittsburgh whiteout at 10pm in January with no visible road markings? That's why Tesla's stats are BS. "All drivers, all conditions, all vehicles, all roads" versus "Where FSD is even functional".
        iknowstuff 9mo ago
        You can just google for videos you know. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTmSgVYTTQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTmSgVYTTQ https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fsd+14+blizzard https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fsd+14+blizzard Any more questions?
    - ronnier 9mo ago
      [flagged]
  - cyberax 9mo ago
    Sigh. FSD is OK on freeways, but it constantly changes lanes for no discernible reasons. Sometimes unsafely or unnaturally, forcing me to take over. The previous stack had a setting to disable that, but not the new end-to-end NN-based system. In cities, it's just shit. If you're using it without paying attention, your driving license has to be revoked and you should never be allowed to drive.
- durandal1 9mo ago
  For anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie. Why would you spend energy lying on HN of all places?
  - qwerpy 9mo ago
    I recently went on vacation and rented a 7 year old Model X and the FSD on it (v12) was better than nothing but not great, especially after having v14 on my truck drive 99% of my miles. It truly is a life-changer for people fortunate enough to have it, so it's always jarring to see the misinformed/dishonest comments online. It's still not perfect but at this point I would trust it more than the average human and certainly more than a new/old/exhausted/inebriated/distracted driver.
  - cyberax 9mo ago
    I've been using Tesla since 2015. And no, it's not a lie. Tesla FSD gives up with the red-hands-of-death panic at this spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 (edit: fixed the location) It also misinterprets this signal: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 It doesn't have enough resolution to resolve the red left arrow, especially when it's even mildly rainy. At this intersection, it just gets confused and I have to take over to finish the turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6 You're welcome to try these locations.
    - dham 9mo ago
      Are you talking hw3 or 4? Also, the e2e FSD is recent. And FSD has gotten really good since 13, and with 14 it's really, really good. Not sure what 2015 has to do with anything. Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out.
      - cyberax 9mo ago
        Both HW versions have problems (and I have both). FSD has been "really good since VVV" for the last 6 major versions or so. > Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out. My windshield is completely normal. Not unusually dirty or anything. It's also Seattle. What is the "sunglare"?
- iknowstuff 9mo ago
  Girl get real. Mercedes fooled quite a few people with their PR stunt but they have NOTHING like fsd. Drive assist pro is vaporware, as their “L3” has been for the past 2 years. You can’t order that shit but half of hackernews is glazing mercedes for it
  - dham 9mo ago
    Update, it is vaporware lol. Just announced today they are canceling it.
    - cyberax 9mo ago
      Links? The most recent one is: https://media.mbusa.com/releases/release-4889b1d1c66cddc7120780203702cb3e-photo-and-video-assets-of-mbdrive-assist-pro-in-the-us https://media.mbusa.com/releases/release-4889b1d1c66cddc7120...
      - imtringued 9mo ago
        They canceled the Drive Pilot L3, which is fully autonomous with zero driver intervention (approved by the government), because the software isn't there yet due to the hand off problem. They are still working on making it work at 130km/h on the highways. The problem with a zero driver intervention system is that the driver isn't guaranteed to pay attention when the mode is no longer applicable and the mode switch is only obvious on the highway when exiting, but the L3 system doesn't support highway driving speeds yet. I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey. I mean a route like L2->L3->L2 where L2 is human supervised autonomous driving and L3 is autonomous driving with zero intervention. You can't tell people they're allowed to drink a coffee and then one minute later tell them to supervise the driving.
        dham 9mo ago
        > I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey. Interesting because that's just not my experience at all and a lot of other users.
- dham 9mo ago
  > FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions. This isn't even close to being right.
Rebelgecko 9mo ago
Llm hallucination? I want to give posters the benefit of the doubt but I didn't mention a reddit thread. If you're just getting me mixed up with another poster, I got my stats from an electrek article supplemented by Waymo's releases: https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ Tesla's tech is also marketed as a full self driving autopilot, not just basic driver assistance like adaptive cruise control. That's how they're doing the autonomous robotaxis and the cross country drives without anyone touching the steering wheel.
- shaklee3 9mo ago
  They have someone in the driver's seat
- iknowstuff 9mo ago
  Which article and what source did it use

Waymo is not an adas. There’s nothing close to FSD 14 abilities out there for consumers. And your stats comparing to waymo are made up and debunked in the very reddit thread they came from

cyberax 9mo ago

Sure. And Tesla doesn't have robotaxis at all, they're still playing in the kindergarten league. So Tesla is in a weird state right now. Tesla's highway assist is shit, it's worse than Mercedes previous generation assist after Tesla switched to the end-to-end neural networks. The new MB.Drive Assist Pro is apparently even better. FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions. If I try to turn it on, it attempts to kill me at least once on my route from my office to my home. So other car makers quite sensibly avoided it, until they perfected the technology.

ronnier 9mo ago
This goes against my daily fsd usage and my friends fsd usage. We all use fsd daily, zero issues, through hard city and highway environments. It’s near perfect outside of the occasional weird routing issues (but that’s not a safety issue). We all have the latest fsd on hw4. No other consumer car on the market in the US can do this (go from point a to b with zero interventions through city and highway). If there was something better then I’d buy it, but there’s not.
- terminalshort 9mo ago
  The issue here is that "zero issues" is something that must be based on a very large sample size. In the US the death rate for cars is a bit over 1 per 100 million miles. So you really need billions of miles of data. FSD could be 10x as dangerous as the average driver and still it would most likely be "zero issues" for you and all your friends.
  - qwerpy 9mo ago
    I'll post the 7 billion miles of stats here (https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety https://www.tesla.com/fsd/safety) but then the objections will be "it's Tesla of course they lie" and the debunked "they turn FSD off right before an accident".
    - FireBeyond 9mo ago
      How does FSD function, or will it even activate, in a Pittsburgh whiteout at 10pm in January with no visible road markings? That's why Tesla's stats are BS. "All drivers, all conditions, all vehicles, all roads" versus "Where FSD is even functional".
      - iknowstuff 9mo ago
        You can just google for videos you know. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTmSgVYTTQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2MTmSgVYTTQ https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fsd+14+blizzard https://m.youtube.com/results?search_query=Fsd+14+blizzard Any more questions?
  - ronnier 9mo ago
    [flagged]
- cyberax 9mo ago
  Sigh. FSD is OK on freeways, but it constantly changes lanes for no discernible reasons. Sometimes unsafely or unnaturally, forcing me to take over. The previous stack had a setting to disable that, but not the new end-to-end NN-based system. In cities, it's just shit. If you're using it without paying attention, your driving license has to be revoked and you should never be allowed to drive.
durandal1 9mo ago
For anyone who has or has experienced the latest gen FSD from Tesla this comes across as a complete lie. Why would you spend energy lying on HN of all places?
- qwerpy 9mo ago
  I recently went on vacation and rented a 7 year old Model X and the FSD on it (v12) was better than nothing but not great, especially after having v14 on my truck drive 99% of my miles. It truly is a life-changer for people fortunate enough to have it, so it's always jarring to see the misinformed/dishonest comments online. It's still not perfect but at this point I would trust it more than the average human and certainly more than a new/old/exhausted/inebriated/distracted driver.
- cyberax 9mo ago
  I've been using Tesla since 2015. And no, it's not a lie. Tesla FSD gives up with the red-hands-of-death panic at this spot: https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 https://maps.app.goo.gl/Cfe9LBzaCLpGSAr99 (edit: fixed the location) It also misinterprets this signal: https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/fhZsQtN5LKy59Mpv6 It doesn't have enough resolution to resolve the red left arrow, especially when it's even mildly rainy. At this intersection, it just gets confused and I have to take over to finish the turn: https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/DHeBmwpe3pfD6AXc6 You're welcome to try these locations.
  - dham 9mo ago
    Are you talking hw3 or 4? Also, the e2e FSD is recent. And FSD has gotten really good since 13, and with 14 it's really, really good. Not sure what 2015 has to do with anything. Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out.
    - cyberax 9mo ago
      Both HW versions have problems (and I have both). FSD has been "really good since VVV" for the last 6 major versions or so. > Red hands of death would be sunglare due to your windshield not being clean. I haven't had red hands since 14 came out. My windshield is completely normal. Not unusually dirty or anything. It's also Seattle. What is the "sunglare"?
iknowstuff 9mo ago
Girl get real. Mercedes fooled quite a few people with their PR stunt but they have NOTHING like fsd. Drive assist pro is vaporware, as their “L3” has been for the past 2 years. You can’t order that shit but half of hackernews is glazing mercedes for it
- dham 9mo ago
  Update, it is vaporware lol. Just announced today they are canceling it.
  - cyberax 9mo ago
    Links? The most recent one is: https://media.mbusa.com/releases/release-4889b1d1c66cddc7120780203702cb3e-photo-and-video-assets-of-mbdrive-assist-pro-in-the-us https://media.mbusa.com/releases/release-4889b1d1c66cddc7120...
    - imtringued 9mo ago
      They canceled the Drive Pilot L3, which is fully autonomous with zero driver intervention (approved by the government), because the software isn't there yet due to the hand off problem. They are still working on making it work at 130km/h on the highways. The problem with a zero driver intervention system is that the driver isn't guaranteed to pay attention when the mode is no longer applicable and the mode switch is only obvious on the highway when exiting, but the L3 system doesn't support highway driving speeds yet. I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey. I mean a route like L2->L3->L2 where L2 is human supervised autonomous driving and L3 is autonomous driving with zero intervention. You can't tell people they're allowed to drink a coffee and then one minute later tell them to supervise the driving.
      - dham 9mo ago
        > I'm not talking about some Tesla style last second bullshit where you're supposed to compensate for the deficiencies of the system that supposedly can do the full journey. Interesting because that's just not my experience at all and a lot of other users.
dham 9mo ago
> FSD attempts to work in cities. But it's ridiculously bad, it's worse than useless even in simple city conditions. This isn't even close to being right.

Rebelgecko 9mo ago

Llm hallucination? I want to give posters the benefit of the doubt but I didn't mention a reddit thread. If you're just getting me mixed up with another poster, I got my stats from an electrek article supplemented by Waymo's releases: https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ https://waymo.com/safety/impact/ Tesla's tech is also marketed as a full self driving autopilot, not just basic driver assistance like adaptive cruise control. That's how they're doing the autonomous robotaxis and the cross country drives without anyone touching the steering wheel.

shaklee3 9mo ago
They have someone in the driver's seat
iknowstuff 9mo ago
Which article and what source did it use