4 ms·

> Although we don’t deserve it, and have done nothing to merit it, we have been offered a glorious ride on this planet, if only we accept it. This is the core

by jimbokun 10mo ago

> Although we don’t deserve it, and have done nothing to merit it, we have been offered a glorious ride on this planet, if only we accept it. This is the core message of Christianity. Undeserved Grace. I will also say though, I find it annoying this guy so easily received gifts from those least able to afford them, and then admits he is not willing to be so generous himself. Did he learn nothing from their example?

jptlnk 10mo ago
If I may, I think that's actually part of the point, and (at least for me) part of the lesson. I read him as saying that part of the miracle to him is that he has experienced something that makes him realize that it's a lot harder than it sounds to be loving and kind with no (or few) conditions, and to open your home and life to a stranger. For me, a lesson of this piece is actually the juxtaposition of the relative ease of -accepting- help and the strange difficulty of -offering- help. It's worth reflecting on, and imo much more relatable. I'm reminded of a friend who talks about primary and secondary wants. He wants to eat a burger, but he wants to want to eat a salad. Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge for him is connecting the dots.
- magicalist 10mo ago
  > Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge for him is connecting the dots. Maybe he could try instead of waiting for someone to help him do it?
  - eduction 10mo ago
    The act of writing something like this can be a way of helping yourself do it. I'm not sure that's his intent, or not, but I like the idea of writing at an intermediate stage. Should he wait until his behavior is perfect before sharing his experience? If so it might never get written. There is a generosity in talking about your own flaws, it can help people who are working through their own flaws as well. Paul Graham is among those who have written about how putting thoughts into words tends to change those thoughts: "You can know a great deal about something without writing about it. Can you ever know so much that you wouldn't learn more from trying to explain what you know? I don't think so." https://paulgraham.com/words.html https://paulgraham.com/words.html
    - magicalist 10mo ago
      > I'm not sure that's his intent, or not I'll just say at the very least there's no evidence in the text itself this is his intent. In fact, he blows right past his observations about himself to underline how magical letting other people be kind is, so it doesn't appear to me that he's ruminating on himself.
JKCalhoun 10mo ago
"…and then admits he is not willing to be so generous himself" That was not my impression. The confessed feeling guilt that he might not be able to have done the same—but I don't recall him saying that he absolutely would not have. (And in fact I believe he can put his doubts aside— he probably would have done the same. Considering it in the abstract is different than when you come face to face with the choice.)
- magicalist 10mo ago
  > The confessed feeling guilt that he might not be able to have done the same I don't know; it's very human, certainly, to feel that way and have that doubt about yourself, but I don't see any evidence of guilt in the text, or even a hand wave at wanting to work on that feeling or himself. Even though I love the point it seems he's trying to make, the post definitely rubbed me the wrong way in that it reads as taking help you don't need from people who need it more, and the reward for them is they get to help someone, and the reward for you is that you get free stuff and be a tourist marveling at how kind everyone they meet is. There's definitely a different way to write this article that doesn't feel like that, and it's not clear to me whether or not the author wrote it this way because they don't see the difference.
luqtas 10mo ago
as written on the emerald tablet once: "That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above". i have received MONEY from poor/working class people on my hitchhike and voluteer trip. i always refused but ALL of them never accepted the refusal. hospitality/food i think it's not even considered a donation/gift for most people who helped me over that year. sometimes you are part of all their forgotten teen dreams. sometimes you are someone they can talk freely about anything. that has no price too
nathan_compton 10mo ago
This is what Christianity says its message is, but one can credibly read quite a few other core messages into what various types of Christians do.
- krapp 10mo ago
  The problem with a religion where all it takes is one weird ritual to remain blameless in the eyes of God forever is that it's easy to let a lot of shit slide. Christians always say "we're not perfect, we're just forgiven." So even though that is Christianity's message, Christianity's metagame means if you take it seriously, you don't actually have to put in the work. You're still going to Heaven because grace is through faith and not works.
  - igneo676 10mo ago
    You've been dealing with the wrong folks then because all Christians should believe what James says when we says James 2:14-20, 26 (NET) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that – and tremble with fear. But would you like evidence, you empty fellow, that faith without works is useless? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
    - 1shooner 10mo ago
      >all Christians should believe I think this is the point being made: your 'should', and by extension your quote, has no meaning when grace is defined as the single goal of spiritual life, and then is reduced to a simple transaction.
      - 10mo ago

jptlnk 10mo ago

If I may, I think that's actually part of the point, and (at least for me) part of the lesson. I read him as saying that part of the miracle to him is that he has experienced something that makes him realize that it's a lot harder than it sounds to be loving and kind with no (or few) conditions, and to open your home and life to a stranger. For me, a lesson of this piece is actually the juxtaposition of the relative ease of -accepting- help and the strange difficulty of -offering- help. It's worth reflecting on, and imo much more relatable. I'm reminded of a friend who talks about primary and secondary wants. He wants to eat a burger, but he wants to want to eat a salad. Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge for him is connecting the dots.

magicalist 10mo ago
> Maybe KK wants to want to help people, and the challenge for him is connecting the dots. Maybe he could try instead of waiting for someone to help him do it?
- eduction 10mo ago
  The act of writing something like this can be a way of helping yourself do it. I'm not sure that's his intent, or not, but I like the idea of writing at an intermediate stage. Should he wait until his behavior is perfect before sharing his experience? If so it might never get written. There is a generosity in talking about your own flaws, it can help people who are working through their own flaws as well. Paul Graham is among those who have written about how putting thoughts into words tends to change those thoughts: "You can know a great deal about something without writing about it. Can you ever know so much that you wouldn't learn more from trying to explain what you know? I don't think so." https://paulgraham.com/words.html https://paulgraham.com/words.html
  - magicalist 10mo ago
    > I'm not sure that's his intent, or not I'll just say at the very least there's no evidence in the text itself this is his intent. In fact, he blows right past his observations about himself to underline how magical letting other people be kind is, so it doesn't appear to me that he's ruminating on himself.

JKCalhoun 10mo ago

"…and then admits he is not willing to be so generous himself" That was not my impression. The confessed feeling guilt that he might not be able to have done the same—but I don't recall him saying that he absolutely would not have. (And in fact I believe he can put his doubts aside— he probably would have done the same. Considering it in the abstract is different than when you come face to face with the choice.)

magicalist 10mo ago
> The confessed feeling guilt that he might not be able to have done the same I don't know; it's very human, certainly, to feel that way and have that doubt about yourself, but I don't see any evidence of guilt in the text, or even a hand wave at wanting to work on that feeling or himself. Even though I love the point it seems he's trying to make, the post definitely rubbed me the wrong way in that it reads as taking help you don't need from people who need it more, and the reward for them is they get to help someone, and the reward for you is that you get free stuff and be a tourist marveling at how kind everyone they meet is. There's definitely a different way to write this article that doesn't feel like that, and it's not clear to me whether or not the author wrote it this way because they don't see the difference.

luqtas 10mo ago

as written on the emerald tablet once: "That which is above is like to that which is below, and that which is below is like to that which is above". i have received MONEY from poor/working class people on my hitchhike and voluteer trip. i always refused but ALL of them never accepted the refusal. hospitality/food i think it's not even considered a donation/gift for most people who helped me over that year. sometimes you are part of all their forgotten teen dreams. sometimes you are someone they can talk freely about anything. that has no price too

nathan_compton 10mo ago

This is what Christianity says its message is, but one can credibly read quite a few other core messages into what various types of Christians do.

krapp 10mo ago
The problem with a religion where all it takes is one weird ritual to remain blameless in the eyes of God forever is that it's easy to let a lot of shit slide. Christians always say "we're not perfect, we're just forgiven." So even though that is Christianity's message, Christianity's metagame means if you take it seriously, you don't actually have to put in the work. You're still going to Heaven because grace is through faith and not works.
- igneo676 10mo ago
  You've been dealing with the wrong folks then because all Christians should believe what James says when we says James 2:14-20, 26 (NET) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacks daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm and eat well,” but you do not give them what the body needs, what good is it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith without works and I will show you faith by my works. You believe that God is one; well and good. Even the demons believe that – and tremble with fear. But would you like evidence, you empty fellow, that faith without works is useless? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
  - 1shooner 10mo ago
    >all Christians should believe I think this is the point being made: your 'should', and by extension your quote, has no meaning when grace is defined as the single goal of spiritual life, and then is reduced to a simple transaction.
    - 10mo ago