4 ms·

It's utter trash, it was good when we had industry focused economies instead of service focused ones. Everybody mocked Russia for having the same gdp as Spain.

by lm28469 10mo ago

It's utter trash, it was good when we had industry focused economies instead of service focused ones. Everybody mocked Russia for having the same gdp as Spain. As it turns out your economy is much stronger when it's focused on heavy industries, steel, mining, oil, &c. Than when it is focused on tourism and other services One produces value, the other generates money, when shits hit the fan you need energy, the drunk brits coming in your strip clubs aren't that useful anymore

baxtr 10mo ago
Oh yes sorry, I forgot that Russia is super successful in Ukraine and Europe is on the brink of collapse because it ran out of energy!
- lm28469 10mo ago
  That's not my point at all Do you think Spain would fair better than Russia against Ukraine ?
  - enaaem 10mo ago
    Actually yes. Ukraine is far easier to invade for Russia. Geography is super flat. You can drive in from anywhere. Easy to supply thanks to sovjet rail. Spain is very mountainous and a pain in the ass to invade. How would Russia supply their troops that are completely rail dependent?
  - baxtr 10mo ago
    I get your point. Spain would fail miserably. But you’re not taken into account how many men Russia is losing to maintain that level of aggression. It’s compensating its small GDP with humans. Spain would never do that and thus fail.
inglor_cz 10mo ago
Russia is fighting the war exactly how I would expect an economy of that size to fight a war. Slow attrition coming from an inability to overwhelm their enemy decisively and fast. How exactly is their economy "strong"? By what measure? You cannot really eat tanks, that is what made life in the Soviet Union unsatisfactory as well. Current price of Ural oil is some 9 dollars above their breakeven costs. As the classic says, not great, not terrible.
matwood 10mo ago
Pointing to Russia as a functioning economy is comical. Industry focused economies are going to continue to come under pressure due to automation. The US for example has a lot of industrial output, but shrinking industrial jobs. And that’s a good thing. Sending people into coal mines should never be a long term plan.
- lm28469 10mo ago
  > Pointing to Russia as a functioning economy is comical. idk man, France's economy minister said he would bring "russia on its knees" economically, 3 years later it's still not anywhere close to being a reality, the minister isn't here anymore tho. Put half of the sanctions on spain and it would fold in a month
  - BrenBarn 10mo ago
    That may be less a matter of him being wrong per se than of politicians loving to make grandiose and inflated pronouncements.
Earw0rm 10mo ago
Depends if you look at Spain in isolation. On its own? Sure. (Although to be fair to Spain, they've invested heavily in solar and high-value agriculture in recent years). But seen as part of a system with Germany and perhaps the UK (no longer part of the EU, but was better for both when they were), it's a valuable part of quality-of-life in the overall economic bloc. Where would you rather live? Spain, easy. Who would win in a war? Russia, easy. Some will read this as an argument against the Spanish lifestyle. On balance I prefer to read it as an argument against war.
- graemep 10mo ago
  > Who would win in a war? Russia, easy. Really? Russia has not even done all that well against Ukraine, a much smaller economy. What sort of war? I agree Spain could not successfully invade Russia, on the other hand Russia could not invade Spain either. No working aircraft carriers so their air force would be operating from very distant bases (even if they were allowed to pass over the countries in between), limits on ability to land large numbers of troops, etc. > no longer part of the EU, but was better for both when they were I do not understand why you even mention that as the EU does not have a military, NATO is relevant and the UK is in NATO. Its a matter of opinion. I think the UK is at least as well off (growth has been similar to comparable economies like France and Germany since Brexit) without even seeing the long term benefits AND the EU is better off as the UK was a major impediment to the political integration the Euro zone needs.
  - lm28469 10mo ago
    > Really? Spain army's is 1/10th of Ukraine's and basically haven't been in anything close to a war in decades, so yes, really and easily lmao. Ukraine alone produces more military drones per month than the entire EU per year btw.
    - graemep 10mo ago
      > Spain army's is 1/10th of Ukraine's and basically haven't been in anything close to a war in decades, so yes, really and easily lmao. They do not have a border with Russia so how could Russia get their army to Spain? Ukraine has armed forces geared to fight a land war with Russia. How do Ukraine's air force and navy compare to Spain's? > Ukraine alone produces more military drones per month than the entire EU per year btw. Because they are in a war. You cannot compare fully geared up war time production to peacetime production. What was Ukraine's drone output prior to the current Russian invasion?
mlrtime 10mo ago
Right but the services sector is more than running strip clubs for tourists. Spain just doesn't export any services other than strip clubs apparently. The US doesn't have this problem. The Financial Services market is the largest in the world.

by lm28469 10mo ago

baxtr 10mo ago

Oh yes sorry, I forgot that Russia is super successful in Ukraine and Europe is on the brink of collapse because it ran out of energy!

lm28469 10mo ago
That's not my point at all Do you think Spain would fair better than Russia against Ukraine ?
- enaaem 10mo ago
  Actually yes. Ukraine is far easier to invade for Russia. Geography is super flat. You can drive in from anywhere. Easy to supply thanks to sovjet rail. Spain is very mountainous and a pain in the ass to invade. How would Russia supply their troops that are completely rail dependent?
- baxtr 10mo ago
  I get your point. Spain would fail miserably. But you’re not taken into account how many men Russia is losing to maintain that level of aggression. It’s compensating its small GDP with humans. Spain would never do that and thus fail.

inglor_cz 10mo ago

Russia is fighting the war exactly how I would expect an economy of that size to fight a war. Slow attrition coming from an inability to overwhelm their enemy decisively and fast. How exactly is their economy "strong"? By what measure? You cannot really eat tanks, that is what made life in the Soviet Union unsatisfactory as well. Current price of Ural oil is some 9 dollars above their breakeven costs. As the classic says, not great, not terrible.

matwood 10mo ago

Pointing to Russia as a functioning economy is comical. Industry focused economies are going to continue to come under pressure due to automation. The US for example has a lot of industrial output, but shrinking industrial jobs. And that’s a good thing. Sending people into coal mines should never be a long term plan.

lm28469 10mo ago
> Pointing to Russia as a functioning economy is comical. idk man, France's economy minister said he would bring "russia on its knees" economically, 3 years later it's still not anywhere close to being a reality, the minister isn't here anymore tho. Put half of the sanctions on spain and it would fold in a month
- BrenBarn 10mo ago
  That may be less a matter of him being wrong per se than of politicians loving to make grandiose and inflated pronouncements.

Earw0rm 10mo ago

Depends if you look at Spain in isolation. On its own? Sure. (Although to be fair to Spain, they've invested heavily in solar and high-value agriculture in recent years). But seen as part of a system with Germany and perhaps the UK (no longer part of the EU, but was better for both when they were), it's a valuable part of quality-of-life in the overall economic bloc. Where would you rather live? Spain, easy. Who would win in a war? Russia, easy. Some will read this as an argument against the Spanish lifestyle. On balance I prefer to read it as an argument against war.

graemep 10mo ago
> Who would win in a war? Russia, easy. Really? Russia has not even done all that well against Ukraine, a much smaller economy. What sort of war? I agree Spain could not successfully invade Russia, on the other hand Russia could not invade Spain either. No working aircraft carriers so their air force would be operating from very distant bases (even if they were allowed to pass over the countries in between), limits on ability to land large numbers of troops, etc. > no longer part of the EU, but was better for both when they were I do not understand why you even mention that as the EU does not have a military, NATO is relevant and the UK is in NATO. Its a matter of opinion. I think the UK is at least as well off (growth has been similar to comparable economies like France and Germany since Brexit) without even seeing the long term benefits AND the EU is better off as the UK was a major impediment to the political integration the Euro zone needs.
- lm28469 10mo ago
  > Really? Spain army's is 1/10th of Ukraine's and basically haven't been in anything close to a war in decades, so yes, really and easily lmao. Ukraine alone produces more military drones per month than the entire EU per year btw.
  - graemep 10mo ago
    > Spain army's is 1/10th of Ukraine's and basically haven't been in anything close to a war in decades, so yes, really and easily lmao. They do not have a border with Russia so how could Russia get their army to Spain? Ukraine has armed forces geared to fight a land war with Russia. How do Ukraine's air force and navy compare to Spain's? > Ukraine alone produces more military drones per month than the entire EU per year btw. Because they are in a war. You cannot compare fully geared up war time production to peacetime production. What was Ukraine's drone output prior to the current Russian invasion?

mlrtime 10mo ago

Right but the services sector is more than running strip clubs for tourists. Spain just doesn't export any services other than strip clubs apparently. The US doesn't have this problem. The Financial Services market is the largest in the world.