4 ms·

No, it just leads to subtler cheating. Closet cheaters are much worse than obvious ones, and they thrive in exactly these conditions: the game is not too broken

No, it just leads to subtler cheating. Closet cheaters are much worse than obvious ones, and they thrive in exactly these conditions: the game is not too broken by rage mode cheaters so there's a lot of fair players they're preying on, they have an inconspicuous advantage, and the advantage is gatekept with some entry barrier so there aren't too many of them. You can have a fully encrypted and attested click-to-photon DRM chain, but it will just a) turn your computer into an appliance and b) cause even worse cheating.

seba_dos1 10mo ago
You're right, but developers don't really care about cheaters cheating. They care about cheaters ruining the game to others, so closet cheaters are not such a big deal to them even when they're thriving as long as they remain closeted.
pyrolistical 10mo ago
Good! It would push down the cheating down to really low percentages. It won’t be easy for a script kiddie to just download any cheat.
- orbital-decay 10mo ago
  There's nothing good about this, and you'll be surprised how many people are willing to spend more than $1k/mo just to cheat in video games. Your game will still be ruined in a worse way, and every step towards the full lock-in just makes this closer. As I said, closet cheaters are MUCH worse than obvious ones, and much harder to catch (and for the context, I used to host very popular servers for several games, so I've seen player complaints and retention rates). Here's my previous comment about what it takes to actually eliminate cheaters. Anticheats are only marginally helpful in this, it's all about observability, manual control, and community building. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46139481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46139481 Intrusive DRM schemes will just take any semblance of computing freedom away from you, while actually making the problem worse in the end.
  - pyrolistical 10mo ago
    If we could eliminate all cheaters down to those willing to spend $1000 per month to cheat, I would consider the war won
    - orbital-decay 10mo ago
      Which is a pretty naive view of the cheating landscape that ignores everything I posted above. Enforcing the rules by technical means is largely superficial everywhere except the actual esports, the culture around the multiplayer gaming (both esports and not) needs to change.
oneshtein 10mo ago
Those, who has better ping, bigger screen, better video card, better mouse, always have advantage over those who haven't. Adapt. There is no fair game in the real life.
Rohansi 10mo ago
People already closet cheat to avoid detection. It's nothing new. You can closet cheat with ESP and that is very game breaking without obvious rage cheating. You can't do ESP if cheats are limited to what is visible on screen so I would say it's an improvement. Even something like autoaim is a bit less effective because it wouldn't be able to snap on players who are offscreen. The gap between cheating and legit players would be reduced which makes it less frustrating for the legit players and probably less tempting for cheaters.

seba_dos1 10mo ago

You're right, but developers don't really care about cheaters cheating. They care about cheaters ruining the game to others, so closet cheaters are not such a big deal to them even when they're thriving as long as they remain closeted.

pyrolistical 10mo ago

Good! It would push down the cheating down to really low percentages. It won’t be easy for a script kiddie to just download any cheat.

orbital-decay 10mo ago
There's nothing good about this, and you'll be surprised how many people are willing to spend more than $1k/mo just to cheat in video games. Your game will still be ruined in a worse way, and every step towards the full lock-in just makes this closer. As I said, closet cheaters are MUCH worse than obvious ones, and much harder to catch (and for the context, I used to host very popular servers for several games, so I've seen player complaints and retention rates). Here's my previous comment about what it takes to actually eliminate cheaters. Anticheats are only marginally helpful in this, it's all about observability, manual control, and community building. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46139481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46139481 Intrusive DRM schemes will just take any semblance of computing freedom away from you, while actually making the problem worse in the end.
- pyrolistical 10mo ago
  If we could eliminate all cheaters down to those willing to spend $1000 per month to cheat, I would consider the war won
  - orbital-decay 10mo ago
    Which is a pretty naive view of the cheating landscape that ignores everything I posted above. Enforcing the rules by technical means is largely superficial everywhere except the actual esports, the culture around the multiplayer gaming (both esports and not) needs to change.

oneshtein 10mo ago

Those, who has better ping, bigger screen, better video card, better mouse, always have advantage over those who haven't. Adapt. There is no fair game in the real life.

Rohansi 10mo ago

People already closet cheat to avoid detection. It's nothing new. You can closet cheat with ESP and that is very game breaking without obvious rage cheating. You can't do ESP if cheats are limited to what is visible on screen so I would say it's an improvement. Even something like autoaim is a bit less effective because it wouldn't be able to snap on players who are offscreen. The gap between cheating and legit players would be reduced which makes it less frustrating for the legit players and probably less tempting for cheaters.