5 ms·

Am I suggesting that you do not do it? Hardly. That said, I am simply not buying my newly assigned martyr.

SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
Again, this concept of "newly assigned martyr" you have is not something that fell from heaven fully formed. It was shaped and given to you by what you call "power centers" - ones which are currently running the United States government! - because they think this framing is beneficial to them. I'm going to stop the conversation here before I start coming up with unwise insults, because it's just infuriating that you can't turn this critical eye on yourself and the informational warfare you're subject to.
- iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
  Who says I can't? In any event, before you go, why, exactly, is it infuriating?
  - SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
    What's infuriating is that you are acting as an agent of the government, defending their murder of a random citizen, but perceive yourself and frame yourself as a dispassionate observer who's interested in the media dynamics of how different descriptors get attached to people. I don't know if you started off like this, or if you're so deep in DHS propaganda that you can't find your way out, and right now I don't care to find out.
    - iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
      The difference between us that I know exactly what ( and even why ) I advocate for: keeping the system stable. << random citizen She was a not some random citizen; I would have been addressing it differently if that was the case. Now, if you have a stomach for it, we can go over what kind of citizen she was.
      - goatlover 10mo ago
        Sounds like, "What kind of American are you?" from the Jesse Plemmons character in the Alex Garland Civil War movie. Shouldn't the fact that ICE shot a woman trying to leave the scene be enough?
        iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
        << Sounds like, "What kind of American are you?" from the Jesse Plemmons character in the Alex Garland Civil War movie. You see what you want to see, which is kinda revealing if you ask me. << Shouldn't the fact that ICE shot a woman trying to leave the scene be enough? No. It is not enough. Reasonable person would be unlikely to find themselves in that position, which begs a simple question: What was her reason for being there? If you can answer that, we can start having a conversation. Until then, she is not some rando at the wrong place at the wrong time.
        deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
        SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
        I fundamentally disagree that ICE deserves that presumption. They have repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be unreasonable people who want to hurt others. I'm sure there's a story they'll tell about why it was totally legal to shoot her, but they're murderers and you're supporting murderers until they prove that there was she was doing something so terrible they had no choice.
        iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
        Hm, as with taxes, do we get to choose which federal enforcement agency we are willing to submit to? Not going to lie man, it is a fascinating frame of mind to me and I am absolutely willing to talk to you about it if you wanna go that route. << but they're murderers and you're supporting murderers until they prove This is not exactly how any of it works, at all. I am not being difficult man, but I don't get to, say, block FBI caravan, because I don't think they deserve 'that' presumption ( quotation, because I am not certain what it refers to ). I similarly don't get to tell DEA, ATF, and multiple other agencies to just fuck off, especially if I encounter them in the wild.. doubly so, if I was attempting to track them that day.. The real question then becomes: Why do you think you get to pick and choose, who can enforce the laws of the land upon you? More importantly, whose authority would you accept?

Again, this concept of "newly assigned martyr" you have is not something that fell from heaven fully formed. It was shaped and given to you by what you call "power centers" - ones which are currently running the United States government! - because they think this framing is beneficial to them. I'm going to stop the conversation here before I start coming up with unwise insults, because it's just infuriating that you can't turn this critical eye on yourself and the informational warfare you're subject to.

iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
Who says I can't? In any event, before you go, why, exactly, is it infuriating?
- SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
  What's infuriating is that you are acting as an agent of the government, defending their murder of a random citizen, but perceive yourself and frame yourself as a dispassionate observer who's interested in the media dynamics of how different descriptors get attached to people. I don't know if you started off like this, or if you're so deep in DHS propaganda that you can't find your way out, and right now I don't care to find out.
  - iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
    The difference between us that I know exactly what ( and even why ) I advocate for: keeping the system stable. << random citizen She was a not some random citizen; I would have been addressing it differently if that was the case. Now, if you have a stomach for it, we can go over what kind of citizen she was.
    - goatlover 10mo ago
      Sounds like, "What kind of American are you?" from the Jesse Plemmons character in the Alex Garland Civil War movie. Shouldn't the fact that ICE shot a woman trying to leave the scene be enough?
      - iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
        << Sounds like, "What kind of American are you?" from the Jesse Plemmons character in the Alex Garland Civil War movie. You see what you want to see, which is kinda revealing if you ask me. << Shouldn't the fact that ICE shot a woman trying to leave the scene be enough? No. It is not enough. Reasonable person would be unlikely to find themselves in that position, which begs a simple question: What was her reason for being there? If you can answer that, we can start having a conversation. Until then, she is not some rando at the wrong place at the wrong time.
        deleted 10mo ago
        [deleted]
        SpicyLemonZest 10mo ago
        I fundamentally disagree that ICE deserves that presumption. They have repeatedly demonstrated themselves to be unreasonable people who want to hurt others. I'm sure there's a story they'll tell about why it was totally legal to shoot her, but they're murderers and you're supporting murderers until they prove that there was she was doing something so terrible they had no choice.
        iugtmkbdfil834 10mo ago
        Hm, as with taxes, do we get to choose which federal enforcement agency we are willing to submit to? Not going to lie man, it is a fascinating frame of mind to me and I am absolutely willing to talk to you about it if you wanna go that route. << but they're murderers and you're supporting murderers until they prove This is not exactly how any of it works, at all. I am not being difficult man, but I don't get to, say, block FBI caravan, because I don't think they deserve 'that' presumption ( quotation, because I am not certain what it refers to ). I similarly don't get to tell DEA, ATF, and multiple other agencies to just fuck off, especially if I encounter them in the wild.. doubly so, if I was attempting to track them that day.. The real question then becomes: Why do you think you get to pick and choose, who can enforce the laws of the land upon you? More importantly, whose authority would you accept?