6 ms·

German president says US is destroying world order

70 points by TechTechTech 9mo ago

chrisjj 9mo ago
Paywalled.
Glawen 9mo ago
[flagged]
- mcphage 9mo ago
  That means more wars.
- earthnail 9mo ago
  How is Germany destroying the EU?
- beezlewax 9mo ago
  Gibberish comment.
- kmmlng 9mo ago
  The end of the UN seems plausible if we continue to move from a rule-based world order to a power-based one. For the same reason, there is little chance we will see the end of the EU. No European country is sufficiently powerful to really matter on the world stage, a more united Europe has the potential to be a significant world power though.
  - general1465 9mo ago
    Thank you! Every single time when people will start about EU falling apart, alternative is what? Being a Russian colony? Whatever harebrained things EU can come up with is lightyears better than than Russian ideas or being just a rug for China.
beezlewax 9mo ago
The US is also destroying its own internal order while they're at it. All to appease some ludicrously rich idiots. Yesterday their moronic immigration gestapo shot and killed an innocent citizen. In the name of what.. safety?
- burnt-resistor 9mo ago
  While George Floyd was neither white nor rich, he had the "advantage" of being murdered not 1 km / ½ mile away by a white MPD (city) officer and so his family was able to bring successful civil claims for tens of millions and the perpetrators were federally and locally investigated, the socio-political landscape changed, and they were prosecuted by the state criminally. Unfortunately, Renee Nicole Good, a poet and mother of 3 has children who will now grow up without a mother and without justice or recompense because her murderer was a federal official who has nearly unqualified immunity to state and federal criminal prosecution and no civil Bivens nor 1983 actions can be brought. These officials are creating an image of lawless paramilitary with a monopoly on violence unrestrained from any meaningful accountability. Governor Walz and Mayor Frey are telling white lies as to what can be done because they have essentially zero power to investigate or prosecute federal officials. ICE & CBP has only paid out $1 million in damages total for every wrongful death claims in years... it just doesn't happen. ICE & CBP are a "samurai" mafia without a code who can and do kill almost anyone with almost total impunity. Only COTUS can fix this by allowing 1983-like claims and limiting QI/SI, but this is a pipe-dream because the team completely in-charge is deferential to law enforcement over unimportant, non-rich people. tl;dr: ICE agents can legally get away with killing almost anyone far more easily than 90's LAPD.
  - cowboylowrez 9mo ago
    yeah people really do seem to underestimate the ramifications of trumps return, but you cannot put a guy like that in a second time and expect good things.
- general1465 9mo ago
  > All to appease some ludicrously rich idiots They are just stretching the rubber band which will eventually snap and smack them in the face. USA is increasingly having more and more poor population which is well armed and has nothing to lose.
4gotunameagain 9mo ago
It is incredible how much the state of humanity as a whole has deteriorated in the past few years. It is impossible to even have hope any more. The vast majority is going to suffer again, for the benefit of a handful of ultra wealthy psychopaths. As if they don't have enough already ?
khalic 9mo ago
If anybody in the US has any doubt, let it be clear: every person with a little bit of critical thinking and education over here in Europe is watching this unfold with horror, and put the blame squarely on trump and his voters ignominy. The lack of humanity and accountability of the maga base is horrifying to watch.
- cons0le 9mo ago
  Now if only we could get europeans to leave twitter and instagram. Its one of the easiest ways to cut the source of power. We need government agencies and politicians especially to get off of there.
  - khalic 9mo ago
    It’s hard, but not impossible, to get people off their addiction.
    - specproc 9mo ago
      Not at all. We, as European governments, block pirate sites and Russia Today. We should similarly ban the social media of what is clearly a hostile foreign power.
      - khalic 9mo ago
        To expand my metaphor, you can force an addict to go cold turkey, but it’s not the best method. Concentrate on people around you. Been happily social network free for 2 years now, have convinced 2-3 people, given my small friends circle, it’s already a miracle. But at some point, blocking is the answer. I tend to agree we’re already there
    - cons0le 9mo ago
      Europeans are telling me right now that americans have a moral imperative to mount an armed insurrection against the government. Which do you think is easier, insurgency or leaving twitter? I didn't just protest against this. I voted, ran mutual aid networks, donated, and canvassed for progressive candidates. And when that failed I canvassed for moderates that I didn't want. I went to churches and asked why they were pushing this garbage. My aunt and uncle were told they weren't welcome in their local church unless they voted for trump and disowned all family members that didn't. The church has a trump sign right on the front lawn. When I went to ask about that being illegal they looked at me like I had 3 heads. My aunt and uncle had to move cities. My friend at the the no kings protest had police fire a beanbag into his eyesocket. He was in his second story apartment watching the protest from above, I was right next to him. We weren't even on the street and they fired right into his eye. He was forced to take a plea deal even though the cops had body cameras. The footage was never handed over, despite a FOIA request. He got no money. He already didn't have health insurance. Its comes off as incredibly hollow when I hear europeans say "nobody tried to stop this" or "Its amazing how little resistance they've faced". We had millions of people protesting without a peep in the news. I really don't want the hear talking about how we should use the 2nd amendment from people that can't even quit twitter.
badhackernews 9mo ago
[flagged]
ndom91 9mo ago
Wow, someone with something to lose finally spoke up / out against the Trump administration! :clap: While (unfortunately) rather heroic in todays day and age, I fear the retribution he's now called upon himself, Germany, and the EU in particular. Vance and Stephen Miller are already always whispering in Trump's ear about the evils of Europe / the EU, convincing him to take action on whatever they want won't be hard. Sidebar: the fact that we have to be fearful of retribution due to such rhetoric is really all that needs to be said about the timeline we're currently living through.
rich_sasha 9mo ago
As a European, I used to think, rather uncritically, that the US is fundamentally fairly good (not perfect but ultimately a good egg), yes some dirty business on the "fringes" of the world or a long time ago (like say, Iraq or Cuba) but "we", the "Western world", are OK and buddies, and US's good behaviour towards us reflects their true nature. My new impression is that there's a nasty streak in the US that simply went against other people for a long time - Native Americans, African slaves, South America, Iran and the Middle East - and it was inevitably going to come out against Europe too at some point. At the end of the day, Trump can do what he does because the Congress accepts it, it accepts it because they are ideologically aligned, and a majority of American voters selected them. I'm not picking on the US here. Plenty of countries, maybe all, have a nasty streak or ten, it's human nature. But I though the US is actually somehow better, with its institutions, its painful lessons from the country's birth, yada yada. Actually maybe they're as bad as the rest of us, but just much more powerful.
- khalic 9mo ago
  I too feel betrayed, I remember being such a fan of the US when I was a kid…
  - JohnFen 9mo ago
    I'm a patriotic US citizen, and I feel betrayed as well. And furious.
- ptrhvns 9mo ago
  I'm not sure that "a majority of American voters selected them" is true. Gerrymandering and other corrupting influences are a serious problem in America.
- rasz 9mo ago
  I blame MacGyver with a little bit on Chuck Norris and A-Team. Great propaganda that made us believe USA was mostly the good guys with some bad apples.
- tharmas 9mo ago
  It's the Elites that are the problem. Yes, there is a sizeable "mob" who are brainwashed by the Elites into being ugly too. The Elites call the shots. So if America is behaving in an ugly way the blame lies almost exclusively with them.
silexia 9mo ago
[flagged]
eudamoniac 9mo ago
I'm not one of those hypocrites who believes that our nation's founding revolution was heroic and just, while any present-day revolution would be the opposite. Violent revolution can certainly be moral, even today, even here. But are you going to risk death for it? I'm not. Food and shelter abound. Our poor are obese. Entertainment is plentiful. How many are really at the point of mortal action? Too few, I imagine.

70 points by TechTechTech 9mo ago

chrisjj 9mo ago

Paywalled.

Glawen 9mo ago

[flagged]

mcphage 9mo ago
That means more wars.
earthnail 9mo ago
How is Germany destroying the EU?
beezlewax 9mo ago
Gibberish comment.
kmmlng 9mo ago
The end of the UN seems plausible if we continue to move from a rule-based world order to a power-based one. For the same reason, there is little chance we will see the end of the EU. No European country is sufficiently powerful to really matter on the world stage, a more united Europe has the potential to be a significant world power though.
- general1465 9mo ago
  Thank you! Every single time when people will start about EU falling apart, alternative is what? Being a Russian colony? Whatever harebrained things EU can come up with is lightyears better than than Russian ideas or being just a rug for China.

beezlewax 9mo ago

The US is also destroying its own internal order while they're at it. All to appease some ludicrously rich idiots. Yesterday their moronic immigration gestapo shot and killed an innocent citizen. In the name of what.. safety?

burnt-resistor 9mo ago
While George Floyd was neither white nor rich, he had the "advantage" of being murdered not 1 km / ½ mile away by a white MPD (city) officer and so his family was able to bring successful civil claims for tens of millions and the perpetrators were federally and locally investigated, the socio-political landscape changed, and they were prosecuted by the state criminally. Unfortunately, Renee Nicole Good, a poet and mother of 3 has children who will now grow up without a mother and without justice or recompense because her murderer was a federal official who has nearly unqualified immunity to state and federal criminal prosecution and no civil Bivens nor 1983 actions can be brought. These officials are creating an image of lawless paramilitary with a monopoly on violence unrestrained from any meaningful accountability. Governor Walz and Mayor Frey are telling white lies as to what can be done because they have essentially zero power to investigate or prosecute federal officials. ICE & CBP has only paid out $1 million in damages total for every wrongful death claims in years... it just doesn't happen. ICE & CBP are a "samurai" mafia without a code who can and do kill almost anyone with almost total impunity. Only COTUS can fix this by allowing 1983-like claims and limiting QI/SI, but this is a pipe-dream because the team completely in-charge is deferential to law enforcement over unimportant, non-rich people. tl;dr: ICE agents can legally get away with killing almost anyone far more easily than 90's LAPD.
- cowboylowrez 9mo ago
  yeah people really do seem to underestimate the ramifications of trumps return, but you cannot put a guy like that in a second time and expect good things.
general1465 9mo ago
> All to appease some ludicrously rich idiots They are just stretching the rubber band which will eventually snap and smack them in the face. USA is increasingly having more and more poor population which is well armed and has nothing to lose.

4gotunameagain 9mo ago

It is incredible how much the state of humanity as a whole has deteriorated in the past few years. It is impossible to even have hope any more. The vast majority is going to suffer again, for the benefit of a handful of ultra wealthy psychopaths. As if they don't have enough already ?

khalic 9mo ago

If anybody in the US has any doubt, let it be clear: every person with a little bit of critical thinking and education over here in Europe is watching this unfold with horror, and put the blame squarely on trump and his voters ignominy. The lack of humanity and accountability of the maga base is horrifying to watch.

cons0le 9mo ago
Now if only we could get europeans to leave twitter and instagram. Its one of the easiest ways to cut the source of power. We need government agencies and politicians especially to get off of there.
- khalic 9mo ago
  It’s hard, but not impossible, to get people off their addiction.
  - specproc 9mo ago
    Not at all. We, as European governments, block pirate sites and Russia Today. We should similarly ban the social media of what is clearly a hostile foreign power.
    - khalic 9mo ago
      To expand my metaphor, you can force an addict to go cold turkey, but it’s not the best method. Concentrate on people around you. Been happily social network free for 2 years now, have convinced 2-3 people, given my small friends circle, it’s already a miracle. But at some point, blocking is the answer. I tend to agree we’re already there
  - cons0le 9mo ago
    Europeans are telling me right now that americans have a moral imperative to mount an armed insurrection against the government. Which do you think is easier, insurgency or leaving twitter? I didn't just protest against this. I voted, ran mutual aid networks, donated, and canvassed for progressive candidates. And when that failed I canvassed for moderates that I didn't want. I went to churches and asked why they were pushing this garbage. My aunt and uncle were told they weren't welcome in their local church unless they voted for trump and disowned all family members that didn't. The church has a trump sign right on the front lawn. When I went to ask about that being illegal they looked at me like I had 3 heads. My aunt and uncle had to move cities. My friend at the the no kings protest had police fire a beanbag into his eyesocket. He was in his second story apartment watching the protest from above, I was right next to him. We weren't even on the street and they fired right into his eye. He was forced to take a plea deal even though the cops had body cameras. The footage was never handed over, despite a FOIA request. He got no money. He already didn't have health insurance. Its comes off as incredibly hollow when I hear europeans say "nobody tried to stop this" or "Its amazing how little resistance they've faced". We had millions of people protesting without a peep in the news. I really don't want the hear talking about how we should use the 2nd amendment from people that can't even quit twitter.

badhackernews 9mo ago

[flagged]

ndom91 9mo ago

Wow, someone with something to lose finally spoke up / out against the Trump administration! :clap: While (unfortunately) rather heroic in todays day and age, I fear the retribution he's now called upon himself, Germany, and the EU in particular. Vance and Stephen Miller are already always whispering in Trump's ear about the evils of Europe / the EU, convincing him to take action on whatever they want won't be hard. Sidebar: the fact that we have to be fearful of retribution due to such rhetoric is really all that needs to be said about the timeline we're currently living through.

rich_sasha 9mo ago

As a European, I used to think, rather uncritically, that the US is fundamentally fairly good (not perfect but ultimately a good egg), yes some dirty business on the "fringes" of the world or a long time ago (like say, Iraq or Cuba) but "we", the "Western world", are OK and buddies, and US's good behaviour towards us reflects their true nature. My new impression is that there's a nasty streak in the US that simply went against other people for a long time - Native Americans, African slaves, South America, Iran and the Middle East - and it was inevitably going to come out against Europe too at some point. At the end of the day, Trump can do what he does because the Congress accepts it, it accepts it because they are ideologically aligned, and a majority of American voters selected them. I'm not picking on the US here. Plenty of countries, maybe all, have a nasty streak or ten, it's human nature. But I though the US is actually somehow better, with its institutions, its painful lessons from the country's birth, yada yada. Actually maybe they're as bad as the rest of us, but just much more powerful.

khalic 9mo ago
I too feel betrayed, I remember being such a fan of the US when I was a kid…
- JohnFen 9mo ago
  I'm a patriotic US citizen, and I feel betrayed as well. And furious.
ptrhvns 9mo ago
I'm not sure that "a majority of American voters selected them" is true. Gerrymandering and other corrupting influences are a serious problem in America.
rasz 9mo ago
I blame MacGyver with a little bit on Chuck Norris and A-Team. Great propaganda that made us believe USA was mostly the good guys with some bad apples.
tharmas 9mo ago
It's the Elites that are the problem. Yes, there is a sizeable "mob" who are brainwashed by the Elites into being ugly too. The Elites call the shots. So if America is behaving in an ugly way the blame lies almost exclusively with them.

silexia 9mo ago

[flagged]

eudamoniac 9mo ago

I'm not one of those hypocrites who believes that our nation's founding revolution was heroic and just, while any present-day revolution would be the opposite. Violent revolution can certainly be moral, even today, even here. But are you going to risk death for it? I'm not. Food and shelter abound. Our poor are obese. Entertainment is plentiful. How many are really at the point of mortal action? Too few, I imagine.