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Chase to become new issuer of Apple Card
- delfinom 9mo agoWonder what Apple caved on. They famously only found goldman to work with them originally because they had significant demands that bucked the industry, including setting everyone's statement dates to the exact same so that customer support collapses the same day every year.
- Tempest1981 9mo agoSearching online, another difference is no late fees for missed payments, only interest, while Chase's late fee is $40. Will that change?
- petesergeant 9mo agoDoes it have to be Apple that caved?
- killingtime74 9mo agoBanks were not queuing up to do it the first time and it didn't work out well for the bank that did (Goldman). Who else is compromising
- sethhochberg 9mo agoI have no insider knowledge here but it doesn't seem outlandish to think that the negotiations would go a little differently for an established product vs a brand new one. Goldman may have simply been the only bank willing to work with Apple when the customer base (in size, demographics, spending patterns, whatever) was hypothetical.
- adrr 9mo agoWhat bank offers rewards and no fees to subprime(below 660) customers? There aren't any. Why no wanted the deal. Guaranteed to lose money. Its not like there's name recognition, i doubt most people could name the underlying bank for the Apple Card. Only place the bank is mentioned is the fine print at the bottom of the card details. Everything is branded "Apple Card"
- LoganDark 9mo ago> i doubt most people could name the underlying bank for the Apple Card. Only place the bank is mentioned is the fine print at the bottom of the card details. And in the bottom-right corner of the titanium card and in the picture in Wallet. And it's advertised practically everywhere they mention the titanium card. And if you have Apple Savings it's also specified to be from GS everywhere.
- LoganDark 9mo agoGS was inexperienced and didn't know what they were getting into; that's why Apple was able to get such a good deal and also why GS now wants out. I fear Chase does know what they're getting into and Apple likely has far less favorable terms now. Though I'm incredibly glad they didn't give it to Synchrony (who runs PayPal and is incredibly sociopathic)
- ksec 9mo agoI would imagine Goldman want out. They were never a retail banking firm to begin with. And sell the current Apple Card division with debt and customer base packaged at a discount. Consider the transition takes 24 months I wouldn't be surprised if the discount allow them to run three years with clause to terminate at later date. The downside and exposure should be limited with great upside on worldwide launch. But judging from Apple's speed with their execution in Apple Wallet this will likely take a lot longer than expected.
- smsm42 9mo agoYeah I was surprised finding out it's Goldman card - I haven't heard about Goldman doing a consumer cards before that (and I have a lot of cards).
- ksec 9mo agoI mean I dont fault Goldman for doing it, if they really want to venture into consumer sector there is no better partner than Apple to do it. But the execution has been absolutely appalling.
- monster_truck 9mo agoAbsolutely. I'd imagine not being able to use the card at Costco alone would be enough to have them entertaining surprising concessions. It was the first thing I thought of, with Chase CC's being Visa instead of Mastercard.
- iancarroll 9mo agoChase issues cards on both the Visa and Mastercard network (i.e. certain cobrands and the Freedom Flex), so I doubt this was a serious consideration.
- adrr 9mo agoWhy would a bank chose to lose billions of dollars?
- pdpi 9mo agoNot sure which way this tips the scales, but Chase has a retail banking presence in the UK, GS doesn't. If Apple wants to expand Apple Card internationally, and want to keep the number of partners to a minimum, Chase would be a better fit. Inversely, Chase's market in the UK is still small, and an Apple Card partnership would be a big draw to pull customers in.
- wt__ 9mo ago(UK reader here too). You could well be right, though I have a couple of theories why they Apple haven't rolled it out here: - maybe they think it'll just be too messy, having to market different cashback reward rates and so on for the US and UK, due to the capped interchange fees - too much "it's not fair" style moaning like everyone did about Black Friday, even though we don't even celebrate Thanksgiving here. - Apple have somewhat de-prioritised UK/Europe generally given their dealings with the EU - (as others have hinted) most banks simply aren't interested From the outside it does seem as though there was basically nothing in it for Goldman Sachs, other than perhaps useful spending data (they must surely have got some data, regardless of Apple's privacy claims) and a bit of industry prestige for being the ones to work with Apple?
- MarkMarine 9mo agoSettling on the same day is quite a choice. PDF creation cluster scaling alone must have been something else, let alone the obvious problems they had knocking over CS and getting fined by the CFPB.
- the8472 9mo agoThis guy manages 35ms per pdf https://www.ersteiger.com/posts/rendering-one-million-pdfs/#results https://www.ersteiger.com/posts/rendering-one-million-pdfs/#...
- lxgr 9mo agoI doubt that PDF generation makes any dent given all the other things they have to process at statement closing. They also don’t mail out statements by default and I don’t think everyone looks at the PDFs on the first day, so they can do it just in time.
- samename 9mo agoThey also kept transaction data more private than other cards. Hopefully they’ve kept that
- adrr 9mo agoI would guess putting a cap of 660 credit score and adding some fees back like late fee, over limit fee, and return payment fee. I don't see JPM doing a card with rewards/cash back in the sub prime market, slate doesn't have any rewards. Apple card with GS was amazing deal for people who didn't have prime credit.
- nrb 9mo agoSome of the perks were great even for prime if you're already bought into the Apple ecosystem. 3% cash back plus 0% APR installment on Apple product purchases is a nice double dip that most cards can't touch unless you're really trying hard.
- adrr 9mo agoIf you don't want to mess with points, its a great card. You still need another card for travel since it doesn't have rental car insurance, travel insurance, etc. Its missing all the features that normally come with Visa Infinite or Mastercard World Elite cards.
- jldugger 9mo ago> so that customer support collapses the same day every year. Every _month_. And it's not just the customer service desk that's a problem. With even distribution of billing and a large customer base, outflows match inflows and you don't have to do much to manage it. With all money coming in on one day you have a huge outflow of money and then it all rushes back in. Much easier to borrow 1 dollar for a year than 30 dollars for a month.
- guessmyname 9mo agodupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46534673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46534673
- xyst 9mo agoI wonder what these means for my credit limit. I have a chase card with 60XXX CL and an AC with 50XXX.
- hamburglar 9mo agoWhy would you want such a high credit limit? Are you dying to spend money you don’t have?
- nutjob2 9mo agoSo you can tell other people about it.
- milkshakes 9mo agocredit utilization is a factor in credit scores, which are important for things like mortgages and auto loans. higher credit limit, ceteris paribus, is lower utilization
- nixass 9mo agoOh my God what a financial hellhole US is
- hamburglar 9mo agoI have never had a credit limit higher than 1800. I’ve managed to get lots of mortgages at rates that are just fine. Stop believing you’re a slave to your credit score.
- milkshakes 9mo agoi don't have any problems with credit, i am just answering the question
- unethical_ban 9mo agoHate the game, not the player. High credit limits = lower utilization ratio = better credit score.
- nomilk 9mo agoHadn't even heard of Apple Card until now: https://www.apple.com/apple-card/ https://www.apple.com/apple-card/ A credit card with > No fees. Not even hidden ones and > 2% cash back when you use Apple Card with Apple Pay and > 3% cash back at Apple (and Uber, Uber Eats, Booking.com and a few others) when you use Apple Pay This seems... really good. As in, it's essentially free money. Am I missing a catch here?
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- potatoman22 9mo agoYou need to buy an apple device
- Larrikin 9mo agoIf you care about earning cash back and points it's only a good card for buying Apple products. I have one and it exist for presents and upgrades. It is great for that but only that.
- emilsayahi 9mo agoIsn't this kind of card normal? The Fidelity card is basically the same (no fees, 2% cash back) but without any Apple-specific restrictions EDIT: The Fidelity card has late fees, I guess. Does the Apple one not? It shouldn't really affect you if you know what you're doing
- nutjob2 9mo agoAlso cash advance fees: https://online1.elancard.com/pdap/terms?locationCode=24193&offerId=5W8QWVRP5M&sourceCode=88424&st=y https://online1.elancard.com/pdap/terms?locationCode=24193&o...
- dillon 9mo agoApple Card can also sometimes offer 3% like at Walgreens and you can also get 6 months of free Uber One. Another benefit of the Fidelity card is they reimburse your Global Entry or TSA pre check. It’s not a bad idea to have both cards because the Apple Card is 1% with the physical card so having the Fidelity card with you for places that don’t accept Apple Pay is a good idea.
- glial 9mo agoGen 1 Apple Card did a bait-and-switch about using it to buy iPhones with 0% interest. Super frustrating.
- colechristensen 9mo agoHow so? I've used my Apple card to buy a few Apple devices and indeed with 0% interest.
- glial 9mo agoI used mine to buy Macbook Airs with 0% interest just fine. For the iPhone, the fine print says you (now) have to sign up with one of their pre-approved carriers. If you use another - Mint or US Mobile or whatever - you're out of luck.
- tshaddox 9mo agoAnd it can’t be prepaid plans, at least with Verizon when I tried that 2 years ago.
- e40 9mo agoBought many things from Apple at 0 interest.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- scenario_tech 9mo agoHilarious. Paying $2.2b for credit losses on a $20b portfolio is insane. That existing portfolio is toxic waste
- veidr 9mo agoPlease elaborate.
- mullingitover 9mo agoThe hilarious thing is the Apple card is a chunk of titanium and doesn’t have contactless payment capabilities in the year 2025. (Obviously their angle is you’ll use your phone or watch, which isn’t a huge stretch)
- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoWhich is actually more secure across the board, which is why I prefer it
- internetter 9mo ago> Which is actually more secure across the board Than mobile payments? Absolutely not
- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoPreventing an RFD vector on the physical card and assuming the user will use mobile payments is less secure than RFD on the card also? Methinks your reading was not sufficient
- itake 9mo agoI've never used the card. too heavy.
- lxgr 9mo agoIt’s much lighter than most other metal cards while being much sturdier too! A real shame it’s completely useless (bad cashback, no printed number making it useless for e.g. hotel or airline card number confirmations at checkin).
- dole 9mo agoGreat for jimmying locks, so not completely useless
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- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoDoes anyone know why they moved away from GS? Frankly I liked that they had GS as the bank cause they come with a pretty amazing customer support system
- ksimukka 9mo agoDid GS not want to be involved anymore? I suspect the liability was one of the issues.
- plorkyeran 9mo agoGS lost a whole bunch of money on the deal and wants to get out of it.
- mdasen 9mo agoIt's part of a larger move by GS to exit consumer banking.
- AndrewKemendo 9mo agoMakes sense
- sam0x17 9mo agoThe whiplash is hilarious, they've been through 3 banks now over the years
- ChrisArchitect 9mo ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46534673 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46534673
- camkego 9mo agoDidn't a HN reader/poster get locked out of his Apple accounts because of late payments or some other type of issue with an Apple Card credit card? If this can happen, I don't plan on ever getting one.
- razingeden 9mo agoApple Store gift card (redeemable for apps music etc purchased in Apple ecosystem ) iirc
- apaprocki 9mo agoI had thousands of dollars of charges I didn’t make (but billed electronically via Apple as if my card was attached to someone else’s iCloud account) appear, exceeding my limit and locking my entire family out of the shared Apple subscriptions (e.g. no music on their devices but strangely music on mine). GS could remotely lock your Apple account at will it seemed. Called, charges reversed, 1 month later they were all reinstated, no reason. Called, charges reversed again, 1 month later they were all reinstated and my Apple Card was cancelled by GS. Since I still had it linked as my payment method w Apple this again locked my whole family out of subscriptions. GS gave no explanation for why the account was closed, but it was after they reversed the charges a second time. Balance was $0, account closed, no recourse. Then 1 month later all the reversed charges were reinstated and on the now locked account and I had no recourse but to pay GS’s ransom because it was a closed account that would be reported if I didn’t pay. I have CCs from a number of banks and it was by far the most ridiculous consumer experience. No wonder GS wants to exit the consumer market because they are terrible at it. Chase is better, but it’s no AmEx. Sad that it’s not AmEx. Now I’m wondering if I can get a new account under Chase because I’m definitely never calling GS again.
- delfinom 9mo agoYou clearly never experienced chases anti-fraud division. Who will, without warning, close all of your chase accounts because you used a credit card at the wrong store at the wrong time and you set off whatever fraud score. And csr will not help you as the anti fraud system is treated as god.
- vladgur 9mo agoFor people living in the states there are better deals to be had: Multiple 2% cashback cards Amazon prime - 5% off Amazon and Whole Foods purchases, but you have to be a prime subscriber Robinhood gold -3% off anything for $60/year Amex blue cash rewards - 6% off groceries(and gift cards bought at supermarkets) for $75 per year
- smsm42 9mo agoI think Amex one is $95/year
- vladgur 9mo agoOh youre right. Its a pain to find the annual fee on their site https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/card/blue-cash-preferred/28810/ https://www.americanexpress.com/us/credit-cards/card/blue-ca...
- e40 9mo agoRe the Amazon card, it used to be offered through Synchrony Bank (I think I got the name right). I had a lot of weird issues with them and their customer service was very difficult to get ahold of and were terrible once you did. I ended up canceling the card.
- adw 9mo agoThe Prime credit card is Chase.
- e40 9mo agoThanks for the clarification. I had forgotten the distinction.
- TheNewsIsHere 9mo agoThat’s the Amazon Store Card, which (at least used to) only works on Amazon.com. The Prime credit card is issued by Chase. I closed mine and stopped patronizing Amazon.com around the time Bezos started meddling with the Washington Post, so I may be out of the loop on how things work now.
- socalgal2 9mo agoI've left Chase twice. Once because they sucked. Once because my bank, First Republic, had a run that put them out of busines. Chase took them over, 10x-ed the prices and 1/10th the level of service. Maybe Apple's influence will help but certainly worrisome for ne.
- inkysigma 9mo agoI wonder what the terms of this new deal are. Goldman Sachs had accepted absolutely ridiculous terms like forgoing fees because they were apparently desperate for consumer business. Chase has an existing consumer business so I can't imagine they would accept the same terms but I wonder what this would mean for the card benefits.
- x187463 9mo agoA nice feature of the Apple Card is the very fast processing of transactions. I can pay for something and have it show up as pending and clear within a day. Whereas my bank credit card will leave transactions pending for an average of five days. The fast clearing is not a huge deal, but it's nice as it pairs well with a daily YNAB routine. The actual rewards are pretty average, but that's okay. I don't really get the elitism I'm seeing in the comments from people who act like you're an idiot for not juggling a half-dozen cards with varying annual fees and rotating bonus points categories. For people who don't travel, rent cars, dine out, etc. the Apple card is a fine everyday card given the number of places that qualify for 2%. In the end, for people making the average US salary, +/-1% in limited categories is not worth the administrative overhead and credit impact of managing a bunch of cards. I personally enjoy some of the min-maxing involved in managing cards/finances, but I wouldn't go as far as to call somebody 'financially illiterate', as one commenter did, for using the physical apple card and receiving 1% back on the rare occasion contactless payment doesn't work somewhere.