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ICE Is Going on a Surveillance Shopping Spree
- websiteapi 10mo agonot sure this can be stopped as long as it's legal to record in public
- trhway 10mo agoby that logic it is perfectly legal for AMZN to openly publish the whole vast-vast trove of Ring videos. I do think it is legal, just wondering what would government do it if AMZN actually does it. I also think the governments at all levels should publish all the license plate readers data because it was collected/bought on the public dime and thus a public property.
- websiteapi 10mo agothere are plenty of sites at least in the USA where you have live cameras of public areas, hosted by the governments themselves.
- trhway 10mo agolets suppose you collect those feeds and do image recognition and integration of data across those multiple feeds, add cross-referencing with other public data of photos, names, addresses, etc. - would it be legal? would it be legal to publish the results in the open?
- websiteapi 10mo agothere are already sites where again you can put it anyone's name and it will show you where they live, where they lived, people they've lived with, and no I will not link them because they're already too widespread and I don't want more to know about them, but someone on here can trivially find one
- jordanb 10mo agoThere was a time when police were banned from putting a tracker on people's cars without a court order. The argument was, yes it's legal to put a tail on a person when they're out in public because that's just a cop observing a person of interest out in public. But electronic trackers are something quantifiable different due to the ease of tracking many people without having to use manpower to do it. It's the thin-edge of mass, casual surveillance of the population. In other words, putting a tail on someone should be manpower intensive because that's a check on police power, they have to really want to track someone to invest potentially several officers' time to it full time, whereas sticking a bug on a car is something they can do to dozens of cars per day per officer. Of course now they don't even have to do that because our police state has normalized centralized cctv camera databases, license plate trackers that continuously track the movement of every vehicle in a city into a database. Now they're doing the same with facial recognition. Now it's even a felony in Florida to do anything to block license plate trackers from tagging your vehicle (so you can't obscure your plate in a way that leaves it readable to humans but not to the automatic tracking software). No doubt we'll have such laws for facial recognition software soon as well.
- deepsun 10mo agoIn general I agree, but thinking of counter-arguments -- criminals are not playing by the same rules and use every manpower-reducing technologies. So if police to keep to their traditional methods, then criminals will have upper hand, and more so with technological advances.
- jordanb 10mo agoIf "criminals" are now are the mass population then we need to think about how we're defining "criminal." Police were always allowed to bug a vehicle with a court order. They weren't allowed to just casually bug random people's cars because that's mass-surveillance. Now mass-surveillance is completely normalized. Every citizen is treated as a potential criminal and surveilled into a database.
- GrowingSideways 10mo agoI'm about 1000x more concerned with gangs of armed thugs kidnapping & murdering my neighbors than I am about criminals.
- GrowingSideways 10mo agoICE doesn't have any shortage of blatantly illegal behavior to point to. I don't think many people realize how far gone the rule of law is already.
- chimmych0nga 10mo ago[flagged]
- TheNewsIsHere 10mo agoI am endlessly frustrated about that. A good friend of mine who also works on tech is utterly disconnected from current events. Whenever I offer a discussion or say “hey did you hear about X?” his response is always skepticism that such a thing could occur. He has a newborn and now he’s even more disconnected (somewhat more understandable given the child). It seems like a lot of people in tech are like that, or increasingly like that. I have a diverse stable of publications, journalists, subject matter current events podcasters, and other sources in my feed readers and my circle. Sitting between these things, it seems like there is a widening gulf.
- ajross 10mo ago> Of course, ICE doesn’t just end up targeting, surveilling, harassing, assaulting, detaining, and torturing people who are undocumented immigrants. Unfortunate timing of this article going live... Some of that seems quaint now.
- pdpi 10mo agoOn the contrary — the timing is perfect. Yesterday, that statement could've been described as hyperbole or a far-fetched hypothetical. Today, it's a different story.
- mdale 10mo agoRight, have to add strait up shooting US citizens to the list :/
- metalman 10mo agoWhat witnesses are desribing in Minniapolis is a public exicution, by ordering a woman to drive away, but there was no room to turn around, and he ran up to the car and shot her 3 times in the face as she was trying to manouver and follow orders. The authorities are trying to call him a hero. On topic, for the life of me I realy cant imagine ICE possesing the capability for surveillance no matter what they buy, and it is clear that government and media company are providing direction ,or sometimes specific actions, other than just go fuck some people up in this area code.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- chimmych0nga 10mo ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 10mo agoJust to see if I got this right. Masked car-jackers could and should be met with deadly force.
- oldjim798 10mo agoICE should be disbanded and most of its leadership jailed for their crimes.
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- beeflet 10mo ago[flagged]
- mindslight 10mo agoNo. The Constitution is the law, and everyone working for this regime is an anti-American traitor. I'm pretty sure the terror squads are wearing masks because if we could identify them, we would see most have been drawn from so-called "patriot" militias [0] and let loose to attack American cities under the color of law (which apparently now includes executing citizens). [0] the naming of which also turned out to be another lie, surprise surprise
- lovich 10mo ago[flagged]
- beeflet 10mo agoI am an American, I just don't believe this idea that the law has anything to do with principles or a hard code of rules. That just isn't what I observe in practice, unless the enforcers of the law happen to be totally neutral to the conflict at hand. The law is enforced based on the general feelings of the people in power, and they will bend principles to punish/reward those that they perceive to be "bad" and "good" accordingly, based on their prejudices. The idea that "might makes right" is sort of a tautology. What you consider to be right is based on a historical precedent set by the mighty.
- lovich 10mo ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 10mo agoThere have been quips for many years about the dragnets of intelligence services and that "Stasi couldn't even dream about having such vast data" and similar. But now we aren't talking about intelligence services anymore. ICE truly is Stasi for America, employing tactics such as "isolating them, depriving them of sleep and using psychological tricks such as threatening to arrest relatives." (From Wikipedia about Stasi.) This year ICE will also become the "armed wing of the Party" thanks to fresh funding.
- rorylawless 10mo agoI fear we are at the point where descendants of ICE employees will be embarrassed to acknowledge the relation.
- Terr_ 10mo agoGrandchild: "Grandpa, what was it like back then, when ICE was snatching innocent people off the streets and the President was putting some them in dictator prisons without trial? Before the super bad stuff started?" Grandpa: "It was a very controversial time, yes. Lots of people doing what they believed was best." Grandchild: "Did ICE ever go after you?" Grandpa: "I worked for the--it was only office--I mean, I was unemployed then. Yes, that's right! Tricky economy, don't you know. Only odd-jobs. I lived in a place where those things weren't happening. In fact, most of us didn't really know about it until it was all over. You remember that, right dear?" Mother: <frustrated death-glare> "...Come along, let's wash your hands before dinner."
- problemtheory 10mo agoHopefully that play ends as tragically or more as The Death of a Salesman.
- netsharc 10mo agoThat's if they ever face a "truth and reconciliation" commision like after Apartheid South Africa. If not, and if you have 3 hours, there's a documentary you can watch. The director said "It was like I went to Germany 40 years after WW2 and found out the Nazis had won". There was an "anti-communist" massacre in Indonesia in 1965. The killers were sanctioned by the government who remained in power/are still very powerful nowadays. (When a reformist president said "maybe we can look at this part of the country's past", the rumour was, the army was going to let protesters (who are still gung-ho communist-hating) protest near the presidential palace, and not intervene if/when they invade it. This documentary follows one old killer and his "journey" from being able to talk about it casually until he ends up meeting his conscience. Here he is in the beginning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZqEzIEWzPk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZqEzIEWzPk And the full documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TDeEObjR9Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TDeEObjR9Q
- buckle8017 10mo ago[flagged]
- galleywest200 10mo agoCasual reminder that the movie The Matrix is older than ICE. The country survived just fine without it before that. Abolishing ICE will not impact us negatively.
- buckle8017 10mo agoICE is just the combination of INS and us customs service. Which are from 1933 and 1789. ICE is the only Federal immigration enforcement agency. Abolishing ICE is abolishing borders.
- oldjim798 10mo ago[flagged]
- buckle8017 10mo ago[flagged]
- nozzlegear 10mo ago> created: November 21, 2024 Right after the election, huh? Kinda weird timing. Fuck ICE, a nuremberg trial for every one of them.
- actionfromafar 10mo agoI lost the sense of taste from all of the trampling on my face.
- galleywest200 10mo agoBorder Patrol (CBP) exists and is a separate entity. They have their own issues, sure, but they are not shooting people in the face recently.
- tombert 10mo ago[flagged]
- xfad72 10mo ago[flagged]
- oldjim798 10mo agoGiven the documented behavior of ICE that is clearly false. They arrest people here legally all the time, torturing them.
- tehwebguy 10mo agoInstitute for Justice is representing a handful of citizens suing ICE for arresting them anyway
- mindslight 10mo agoThat is so obviously false. Who is paying you to spread this tripe? Any actual Americans should be looking at the events of today in horror.
- jordanb 10mo agoICE just murdered a US citizen in cold blood and this isn't even the first.
- websiteapi 10mo agoAmerican police have been murdering citizens for over a century - nothing new sadly.
- LightHugger 10mo ago[flagged]
- jordanb 10mo ago
- voganmother42 10mo agoWill they murder more or fewer innocent people with better surveillance data?
- deadbolt 10mo agoWell they don't care if you're innocent or not, so I'm wagering 'more'.
- hahahahhaah 10mo agoYou can also kill guilty people and that can be murder.
- mathfailure 10mo agoYou can also not kill any people and that will be absence of murder. That's not what is being discussed.
- hackable_sand 10mo agoMore. It's always more.
- Helloworldboy 10mo ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 10mo agoEven if masked, unidentified armed men are trying to shoot you? That sounds an awful lot like self defence. Or it might have been nothing but an attempt to flee. But perhaps fleeing is also punishable by Death by our new Stasi/Judge Dread balaclava wearing hybrids.
- tremon 10mo agoLess. More surveillance will mean more opportunities for parallel construction, so they will be able to "justify" more murders.
- femto 10mo ago> ICE is specifically the enforcement arm of the U.S. immigration apparatus. If you add up the budgets of all the various "police" forces in the US, how much money is spent each year keeping the domestic population in line? I'm interested, as it seems that lots of groups in the US have their own overlapping police force rather than relying on "the" police. Apart from the total budget, it would be interesting to see a list of all the various police type forces at work in the US.
- femto 10mo agoFollowing up my own comment, it turns out that Wikipedia has a lot of information on this subject. This article seems like a good jumping off point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_...
- ekjhgkejhgk 10mo agoRemember how people used to say "Why did the vast majority of people, non-Nazis, just go along? Why did nobody do anything about the Nazis?". We're seeing it right now. ICE is now an organization acting with violence outside of its jurisdiction, like the SA were for the Nazis.
- chimmych0nga 10mo ago[flagged]
- antiframe 10mo agoSo you are asserting that the American citizen shot today was in the country illegally?
- whatisthiseven 10mo agoGiven the comparison was already made, what do you think of the Nuremberg laws, then? They were laws that, in as many words, made being a jew illegal in Germany and stripped them of their own citizenship status. That is just "the law being carried out", too, I guess. ICE carried out it's mission without all the theatrics before, and deported more people in previous years. The theatrics, and the collateral damage to American citizens or those with actual temporary rights to be here, is the point with this current administration. A fair and apt comparison.
- dartharva 10mo agoI have no skin in the game (being neither American nor immigrant), but you do realize how much of a stretch you've just made? Comparing Nuremburg to a sovereign country preventing illegal immigration (literally a crime everywhere on earth)? Are you serious!?
- whatisthiseven 10mo agoSo why isn't ICE carrying out its mission without all the theatrics, and why so poorly? Obama was able to deport 470,000, whereas Trump did somewhere around 600,000. The laws are a pretense for action. The goal is racial fear-mongering by any means. Citizens are getting caught up in this and the administration doesn't care. OP's comment was "why did no one stop the Nazi's". Because it didn't start with the gas chambers. It ended there. We can always make slippery slope arguments. But when that slope starts to look steep....OP's original question kind of answers itself. People rationalize it, they downplay the atrocities, they don't care for the victims, "it's just the law", any excuse. Current citizens and illegal immigrants are thrown in overly packed cages, starved, no water, and unhygenic. I mean, how close to the gas chambers do we have to get? When they actually start stripping them of their possessions and clothes and wealth? When they start the labor camps? OP's question is salient. Most people don't act, because it is never bad enough. It never will be. Until one day it finally is. That's why the Nazi's got so far. Trump isn't going to gas immigrants. No, I don't think that will happen. But the slope looks steep.
- uxp100 10mo agoEveryone should spend a little time looking at the DHS twitter.
- tremon 10mo agoNobody should spend time on twitter.
- mlmonkey 10mo agoIt's a question of incentives. From what I've heard: ICE agents are incentivized to the tune of $5000 for every immigrant deported. So they go after the low-hanging fruits: the immigrants coming in for their periodic immigration court hearings, the Home Depot parking lots, etc. This is why you hear about old grannies being arrested and deported and random immigrant workers with no criminal history being nabbed. Basically, ICE is a group of bounty hunters and they have no qualms about breaking the law if it leads to a nice payday.
- sirshmooey 10mo agoThat would certainly explain the lack of publicized confrontation. If they were mostly deporting actual criminals / gang members, one would expect more stories akin to the events today.
- actionfromafar 10mo agoActual criminals may have guns and know how to use them. That's bad risk / reward ratio. They should know, many of ICE are (pardoned) criminals!
- Freedom2 10mo agoWhat's the source on ICE being mostly pardoned criminals? I was under the impression this administration was against criminal gangs.
- actionfromafar 10mo agoNowhere did I say ICE is mostly pardoned criminals. I was under the impression the administration was against criminal gangs the President isn't currently friendly with, such as newly whitewashed and perfumed ISIS leaders, former South American pardoned drug dealing ex-presidents, and such.
- Freedom2 10mo ago
- wakawaka28 10mo agoRemember: None of this intrusion would have been necessary if we had simply enforced the border.
- actionfromafar 10mo agoWhich intrusion is necessary? The intrusion of a bullet into a brain?
- wakawaka28 10mo ago[flagged]
- actionfromafar 10mo ago[flagged]
- wakawaka28 10mo agoI saw the video. You sure are assuming a lot of things yourself.
- stvltvs 10mo agoBorder enforcement is only the excuse to build a paramilitary force akin to the Blackshirts or the Sturmabteilung that will do whatever violence is asked of them.
- wakawaka28 10mo agoDude, every country has borders and most take it seriously. In many countries, such as Poland, they shoot at people crossing the border illegally. A country with no enforced borders is no country at all. If you want to revise your assessment to include the creation of this problem by having a lax border, I can agree with you somewhat. We should not require border police far away from the borders. But we do require it now, because certain malicious politicians let in a bunch of people illegally.
- red-iron-pine 10mo agoBeen doin that for a while. Check out Indeed.com and search for IT gigs in Northern VA or MD or DC, or a couple other federal-ish locations. Lots of "180k for 6 month contract supporting DHS client deploying next gen cameras"