4 ms·

[flagged]

by simlevesque 9mo ago

[flagged]

nullorempty 9mo ago
hm, families need to eat.
- simlevesque 9mo ago
  Then why is HTTP, CSS and HTML free ? It's creators need to eat too. Should they start charging for it ?
  - gizzlon 9mo ago
    eeeh.. those are standards, not products.
  - 00deadbeef 9mo ago
    Tailwind CSS is free and funded by extras like Tailwind Plus. HTML and CSS are free to use but the W3C is funded by membership fees.
  - hashhar 9mo ago
    Which of those are evolving at the rate of frameworks? BTW I'm of the opinion that frontend tooling developers should actually try to contribute things to HTML and CSS instead of building "component libraries" on top of them. If the native controls were good and if the browsers allowed using "uniformly styled" versions of them then there would be no good reason for such libraries to exist.
  - robinhood 9mo ago
    Your comments in this thread are terrible, all of them. You are part of the reason why working on open source projects is so hard for people who obviously want to do good in this world. Check Adam's work: his work has been a net positive for the OSS community. Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please.
    - romanhn 9mo ago
      As someone who paid for a lifetime license of Tailwind UI, unlike, I strongly suspect, simlevesque - I 100% agree with this. The negativity is completely uncalled for, please take this somewhere else and do some self-reflection.
    - ksec 9mo ago
      > Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please. I have been on HN since 2008, his comment is by far the worst encounter ever in my memory. The sense of entitlement, not only in one comment by literally every single one of them in this thread and despite all the explanation he still believes he is right. And to top it off he manage to drag HTML and CSS standards into it.
- hiQloIQ 9mo ago
  I like how we recognize this necessity to our biology but commit everyone to Hunger Games-lite performative, fiat (by decree alone), economics due to lack of political action in the face of some walking dead politicians who can't get through a day or week without handfuls of pills, they're that pathetic. We are a deeply unserious society. Anyway; good luck going viral online, everyone. I got lucky, have had generational wealth in my back pocket since birth, am off the hook for you by our social norms. Hopefully it works out for you because I and the rest of us won't be engaged in political action on your behalf. Dance for the organ!
- whateveracct 9mo ago
  [flagged]
simonw 9mo ago
WTF? So your answer to "how should open source projects achieve financial sustainability" is "don't even try"?
- simlevesque 9mo ago
  When you start making your open source project worse for your users because you are not making enough out of it I'll choose to use something else. There's a point where it's too much and it just feels like a trojan horse when later you stop caring for your free users.
  - Someone1234 9mo ago
    I notice that you didn't answer their question: How should OSS be funded?
    - simlevesque 9mo ago
      Ethically
      - simonw 9mo ago
        What's the ethically bad thing Tailwind did here? Not merging that pull request?
        simlevesque 9mo ago
        I'd feel lied to if someone offers me a free tool and later the person that controls it chooses to make it worse just to make more money. I got bit by that many times and do my best to avoid it but when it happens it's a stab in the back.
        roblabla 9mo ago
        At what point did they make it _worse_? Tailwind didn't remove any existing functionality here. What they did was refuse to merge a PR while they're trying to figure out how to navigate a difficult financial problem, all while being fully transparent about what's going on, and saying that they're open to merging the PR if/when they manage to get things together. This is very different from, say, the minio situation, where they were actively removing feature before finally closing development down entirely. Whether tailwind will end up going down this route, time will tell. But as of right now, I find this reading to be quite uncharitable.
zeusly 9mo ago
[flagged]
- simlevesque 9mo ago
  I didn't ask how to do a bait and switch to offer a good free product and later ask for more money or else I'm going to make it worse. But I guess nuance is hard to understand. Also it's always funny when someone tries to look up your past instead of giving convincing arguments.
  - jstummbillig 9mo ago
    Arguments for... somebody wanting to get paid for their work? What are you doing?
    - simlevesque 9mo ago
      Normally you ask for payment upfront, not years after.
      - jstummbillig 9mo ago
        Who got asked to pay years after...? After what? Best read: You are confusing different products. Somebody can do two things and get paid for only one of them. Worst read: You are really trying to confuse them.
      - patates 9mo ago
        Nobody is asked for money years after they started using Tailwind. Nobody is being asked for money now, when they start using Tailwind.
      - orthecreedence 9mo ago
        So fork and offer your better free version. Holy fuck. What's with this persistent attitude that open source creators should slave away for free forever? Either you support an economy where everyone gets a meager living wage just for existing and then once that's established you can complain about people trying to make money off open source, or you say "capitalism as it exists is great" and swallow the fact that people who you don't pay don't work for you. Which is it?
asadkn 9mo ago
You're existing in hyper-capitalism. So yes big surprise, people need to make money.
tomhow 9mo ago
Please don't fulminate or post flame bait on HN. This low-effort comment started just the kind of flamewar we're trying to avoid on HN. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46529364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46529364 and marked it off topic.
- simlevesque 9mo ago
  Sorry I honestly didn't anticipate my opinions to be so divisive and this outcome wasn't my intention. I'll do better. Could you delete my comments too ? Thank you

[flagged]

nullorempty 9mo ago

hm, families need to eat.

simlevesque 9mo ago
Then why is HTTP, CSS and HTML free ? It's creators need to eat too. Should they start charging for it ?
- gizzlon 9mo ago
  eeeh.. those are standards, not products.
- 00deadbeef 9mo ago
  Tailwind CSS is free and funded by extras like Tailwind Plus. HTML and CSS are free to use but the W3C is funded by membership fees.
- hashhar 9mo ago
  Which of those are evolving at the rate of frameworks? BTW I'm of the opinion that frontend tooling developers should actually try to contribute things to HTML and CSS instead of building "component libraries" on top of them. If the native controls were good and if the browsers allowed using "uniformly styled" versions of them then there would be no good reason for such libraries to exist.
- robinhood 9mo ago
  Your comments in this thread are terrible, all of them. You are part of the reason why working on open source projects is so hard for people who obviously want to do good in this world. Check Adam's work: his work has been a net positive for the OSS community. Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please.
  - romanhn 9mo ago
    As someone who paid for a lifetime license of Tailwind UI, unlike, I strongly suspect, simlevesque - I 100% agree with this. The negativity is completely uncalled for, please take this somewhere else and do some self-reflection.
  - ksec 9mo ago
    > Go spread your poison and nasty comments elsewhere please. I have been on HN since 2008, his comment is by far the worst encounter ever in my memory. The sense of entitlement, not only in one comment by literally every single one of them in this thread and despite all the explanation he still believes he is right. And to top it off he manage to drag HTML and CSS standards into it.
hiQloIQ 9mo ago
I like how we recognize this necessity to our biology but commit everyone to Hunger Games-lite performative, fiat (by decree alone), economics due to lack of political action in the face of some walking dead politicians who can't get through a day or week without handfuls of pills, they're that pathetic. We are a deeply unserious society. Anyway; good luck going viral online, everyone. I got lucky, have had generational wealth in my back pocket since birth, am off the hook for you by our social norms. Hopefully it works out for you because I and the rest of us won't be engaged in political action on your behalf. Dance for the organ!
whateveracct 9mo ago
[flagged]

simonw 9mo ago

WTF? So your answer to "how should open source projects achieve financial sustainability" is "don't even try"?

simlevesque 9mo ago
When you start making your open source project worse for your users because you are not making enough out of it I'll choose to use something else. There's a point where it's too much and it just feels like a trojan horse when later you stop caring for your free users.
- Someone1234 9mo ago
  I notice that you didn't answer their question: How should OSS be funded?
  - simlevesque 9mo ago
    Ethically
    - simonw 9mo ago
      What's the ethically bad thing Tailwind did here? Not merging that pull request?
      - simlevesque 9mo ago
        I'd feel lied to if someone offers me a free tool and later the person that controls it chooses to make it worse just to make more money. I got bit by that many times and do my best to avoid it but when it happens it's a stab in the back.
        roblabla 9mo ago
        At what point did they make it _worse_? Tailwind didn't remove any existing functionality here. What they did was refuse to merge a PR while they're trying to figure out how to navigate a difficult financial problem, all while being fully transparent about what's going on, and saying that they're open to merging the PR if/when they manage to get things together. This is very different from, say, the minio situation, where they were actively removing feature before finally closing development down entirely. Whether tailwind will end up going down this route, time will tell. But as of right now, I find this reading to be quite uncharitable.

zeusly 9mo ago

[flagged]

simlevesque 9mo ago
I didn't ask how to do a bait and switch to offer a good free product and later ask for more money or else I'm going to make it worse. But I guess nuance is hard to understand. Also it's always funny when someone tries to look up your past instead of giving convincing arguments.
- jstummbillig 9mo ago
  Arguments for... somebody wanting to get paid for their work? What are you doing?
  - simlevesque 9mo ago
    Normally you ask for payment upfront, not years after.
    - jstummbillig 9mo ago
      Who got asked to pay years after...? After what? Best read: You are confusing different products. Somebody can do two things and get paid for only one of them. Worst read: You are really trying to confuse them.
    - patates 9mo ago
      Nobody is asked for money years after they started using Tailwind. Nobody is being asked for money now, when they start using Tailwind.
    - orthecreedence 9mo ago
      So fork and offer your better free version. Holy fuck. What's with this persistent attitude that open source creators should slave away for free forever? Either you support an economy where everyone gets a meager living wage just for existing and then once that's established you can complain about people trying to make money off open source, or you say "capitalism as it exists is great" and swallow the fact that people who you don't pay don't work for you. Which is it?

asadkn 9mo ago

You're existing in hyper-capitalism. So yes big surprise, people need to make money.

tomhow 9mo ago

Please don't fulminate or post flame bait on HN. This low-effort comment started just the kind of flamewar we're trying to avoid on HN. Please take a moment to read the guidelines and make an effort to observe them. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46529364 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46529364 and marked it off topic.

simlevesque 9mo ago
Sorry I honestly didn't anticipate my opinions to be so divisive and this outcome wasn't my intention. I'll do better. Could you delete my comments too ? Thank you