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Actually its easy if you're a multinational. You invest outside the United States.
by ojbyrne 9mo ago
Actually its easy if you're a multinational. You invest outside the United States.
- OGEnthusiast 9mo agoThe US needs an offshoring tax. If you want to sell to Americans you also need to hire Americans.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoThe HIRE Act: 25% tax on outsourcing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45161419 - September 2025 (19 comments)
- pjc50 9mo agoshrug enjoy paying more taxes for your consumption, I guess.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoYes, I do want to pay more to bolster my country's domestic workforce vs subsidizing corporate shareholders and offshore workers, while also having that come out of corporate profits. shrug
- vlovich123 9mo agoI hate to break it to you, but corporate profits are rarely affected. They just pass on the costs of the tax directly to the consumer.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoCool, give me as much statute and regulation required to squeeze companies and encourage competition to drive down profits while protecting workers. This system and game is all arbitrary, we can change the rules (of course, with time and effort). If we have to kill some companies to do this, that's acceptable. As someone wise once said, "We may not always succeed. But never will we be accused of lacking the courage to try."
- vlovich123 9mo agoAre you going to stop at killing corporations? I can imagine a few people might also try to stop you from this people’s revolution you’re envisioning.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoDemocratic socialists were just recently democratically elected in NYC and Seattle. Support for unions in the US is at historical record highs [1]. ~2M 55+ people in the US die every year, ~5k per day. ~3M people turn 18 every year and become eligible to vote, young people who only see bleakness ahead. 31% of wealth is held by people over 70 [2]. This is a population dynamics story, old ideas die out, new ideas come in (Planck's principle). I'm confident support for worker vs corporate policies is high, based on all available evidence [3] [4] [5]. Sixty percent of Americans cannot afford a basic quality of life on their income [6], as another data point. So, I'm unsure who is in the "pro capitalism pro corporation" corner to be honest, when you consider the wealthiest 10% of Americans own 93% of equities. No harm should come to humans of course, but corporations, entities, and systems are all fair game. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45851620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45851620 (citations) [2] 31% of Wealth Owned by People Over 70 - https://www.apolloacademy.com/31-percent-of-wealth-owned-by-people-over-70/ https://www.apolloacademy.com/31-percent-of-wealth-owned-by-... - December 7th, 2025 [3] The housing crisis is pushing Gen Z into crypto and economic nihilism - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46079617 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46079617 - November 2025 (4 comments) [4] https://www.cato.org/blog/81-say-they-cant-afford-pay-higher-taxes-next-year https://www.cato.org/blog/81-say-they-cant-afford-pay-higher... ("A recent survey by the Cato Institute and YouGov paints a troubling picture: 62 percent of Americans aged 18–29 say they hold a “favorable view” of socialism, and 34 percent say the same of communism.") [5] Why millennials feel hopeless about the economy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46062082 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46062082 - November 2025 (15 comments) [6] https://www.lisep.org/mql https://www.lisep.org/mql (think in systems)
- potato3732842 9mo agoYour take is questionable and increasingly becomes asinine every time a boomer croaks and a young person makes it to voting age. No amount of seductive "institutions who's inner workings we will figure out late as though they don't make or break it all will provide for us" rhetoric are going to change the fact that the electorate is increasingly made up of people who have only seen institutions, both public and private, engage in accumulation of power self enrichment at the expense of literally everyone else. I don't know what the future holds but I assure you it does not involve the people vesting yet more power in institutions that have only led them astray in their lifetimes (governments, unions and other industry groups, academia, etc). As the evil among us like to say "demographics are destiny" [1]. [1]https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=demographics%20are%20destiny%20toomuchtodo&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- estearum 9mo agoYou can just buy US-made products... How many American-made garments are in your closet right now? Or is this more of an imaginary preference you're expressing right now?
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoNot imaginary, I have been sharing info with Congressional reps on this topic who are working on policy, as well as the data on H-1B fraud and use for wage suppression. I haven't even had to pay a bribe ("campaign contribution") to get their ear, which is nice. > How many American-made garments are in your closet right now? This is a tired argument. The electorate was told "not to worry, we're offshoring the low value work so we can focus on high value work." Then, they offshored and automated the high value work.
- estearum 9mo agoThe question was how many American-made products you own. You are aware we do make many things in America today, right? > Then, they offshored and automated the high value work. Huh? American workers are more productive than ever, and vastly more productive than workers anywhere else in the world.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoThe US service economy is ~83% of GDP. Manufacturing only makes up 8% of jobs in the US. Why do I care about US made products? Corporations are offshoring services and knowledge work, manufacturing has been gone for some time and will not be back. If it does come back, it'll be mostly automated, lights out facilities (like China). So! I think it makes a lot of sense to impair the offshoring of these service and knowledge jobs when there isn't a labor shortage and we're likely in a recession. If you need more data, I can provide as much as you would like on this topic. America’s missing manufacturing renaissance - https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/01/06/americas-missing-manufacturing-renaissance https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2026/01/06/a... | https://archive.today/3qQUq https://archive.today/3qQUq - January 6th, 2026 The U.S. is losing thousands of manufacturing jobs, analysis finds - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jobs-manufacturing-trump-tariffs-economy/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jobs-manufacturing-trump-tariff... - October 1st, 2025 Trump’s Trade War Squeezes Middle-Class Manufacturing Employment - https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trumps-trade-war-squeezes-middle-class-manufacturing-employment/ https://www.americanprogress.org/article/trumps-trade-war-sq... - September 5th, 2025 USA Facts: What does the US produce? - https://usafacts.org/articles/what-does-the-us-produce/ https://usafacts.org/articles/what-does-the-us-produce/ ("Over four-fifths (83.3%) of value added to the US economy in 2024 was via services, for a total of $24.3 trillion.") USA Facts: The diminishing role of manufacturing in the American economy - https://usafacts.org/articles/diminishing-role-manufacturing-american-economy/ https://usafacts.org/articles/diminishing-role-manufacturing... - October 16th, 2020 https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/ https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/
- zelon88 9mo agoCould you please name one non-food product in America that a typical consumer could buy that doesn't subsidize corporate shareholders? Name one thing the average American can buy that contributes to gainful employment at the expense of corporate profit. Where I'm sitting, the only manufacturing that exists in the USA is, for subassemblies or components that are purchased by larger companies on a contract basis, and manufactured by lower-middle class citizens. Boeing and GE is an example. And the reason Boeing buys domestically is only because they have to in order to limit their liability, reduce labor costs, and protect their IP. If the America you're looking for existed, Boeing would happily pay twice as much for labor to make components in house. If that America existed your television would be made here too, by people who weren't being subsidized themselves by Food Stamps. There are no consumer commodity manufacturers in the USA who provide gainful employment without significant consideration towards corporate profit. There is basically nothing at Wal-Mart that you can buy that is made in the USA by people who are living in financial comfort. That's just not how late stage capitalism works.
- ojbyrne 9mo agoPersonally I’m willing to pay more to support global trade, and reduce the harmful effects of excessive nationalism and imperialism.
- Workaccount2 9mo agoIt's even better than that, pay less and support global trade. Just make sure you have a degree and a service sector white collar job though.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- polshaw 9mo agoUS would lose out significantly if this were applied by everyone worldwide. The whole of Europe + Anglosphere have surrendered their whole tech related sectors to US companies, an enormous wealth transfer.
- FuriouslyAdrift 9mo agoMost US tech related companies are actually headquartered in Ireland (for tax purposes)
- magicalist 9mo ago> Most US tech related companies are actually headquartered in Ireland (for tax purposes) Regional headquarters. That helps with their taxes in Europe. It wouldn't work to avoid taxes on money made in the US.
- FuriouslyAdrift 9mo agoYou'd be dead wrong there... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement
- femiagbabiaka 9mo agoTrump has made the idea of mafioso politics popular -- where you hold everyone hostage until they do what you want -- but that doesn't actually mean that it's good policy.
- estearum 9mo agoNor is it popular once actually realized. It's mostly for dumbasses to go "rah rah" thinking they'll be at the top of the pyramid. The problem with this form of governance is it puts the most vicious, selfish, and brutal people at the top. Those are rarely the most intelligent and (obviously) never the most magnanimous.
- Tanoc 9mo agoHe has also shown that it isn't a functional policy either. Much of what he's done has backfired almost immediately after it was implemented, but much like a gremlin in a wiring loom by the time the sparks appear he's already moved on to tear out something else important. Mafioso politics only work when your concentrated power is wielded against fragmented power that will move too slowly to mitigate you. Even if there are a multitude of small groups if they turn against you even without unanimous action you're spending too much time and effort jumping from thing to thing to ever actually achieve your intended goals. The end result is a parade of violent whack-a-mole as force is used against the myriad number of small revolts that happen, exhausting the resources of the enforcement infrastructure and normalizing the expectation of violence. Of course the four morons of the broken winds don't see this as a failure, but merely an excuse to normalize that violence until it reaches the extent that they will face little to no consequence when they push it to the logical extreme and attempt to exterminate the many opposing groups rather than simply subjugate them.
- ibejoeb 9mo agoAnyone will tell you I'm not a regulations guy, but there's definitely a problem. When you watch these rounds of seemingly coordinated, sweeping layoffs, followed by H-1B hiring sprees, it's hard to pretend.
- aldebran 9mo agoYou’re misinformed or willingly stupid if you think there are H1 hiring sprees with the last set of changes. H1 hiring has tanked.
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoPlease prove this assertion with a citation to data.
- ibejoeb 9mo agoThis is a real eye-opener. Do you know how to fix how stupid I am? Tell me what's wrong with my analysis. Here's a report: https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-lawmakers-scrutinize-tech-firms-over-h-1b-visa-use-amid-other-job-layoffs-wsj-2025-09-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-lawmakers-scruti.... Is it factually wrong that "In the first half of 2025, Amazon and its cloud-computing unit, AWS, received approval for more than 12,000 H-1B visas, while Microsoft and Meta had more than 5,000 H-1B visa approvals each" and that they did layoffs?
- nostrademons 9mo agoIt's hard to see how H-1B hiring could move meaningfully either up or down, given that the number of H-1Bs is capped at 65,000 [1] (+ 20,000 for advanced degrees), no company is going to pay for the process of getting an H-1B visa and not actually hire into it, and if a person on an H-1B loses their job they lose their visa in 60 days. You know exactly how many H-1Bs there are in the country: it's mandated by Congress. What has changed is that they are or will soon be allocated by pay level instead of randomly. That's going to bias hiring toward Big Tech firms like Microsoft and Meta and away from body-shops like Infosys and Wipro. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/h-1b-specialty-occupations/h-1b-cap-season https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary...
- hvb2 9mo agoYour fellow Americans disagree, they will buy their stuff from whoever is the cheapest. People need to understand that it matters how they spend. They can't expect everyone else to pay for things to be made in America when they're not willing to themselves.
- Tadpole9181 9mo agoIs that what we said about slavery?
- snakeboy 9mo agoIf you can't reason about the concept of 'price sensitivity' without a slippery-slope invocation of slavery, then I think capitalism isn't for you.
- ben_w 9mo agoYou want to tax foreign businesses that sell stuff to you? Ok, given you can only tax stuff when it passes into your territory what you really have there is called a "tariff", it is paid by… the customer, when they buy the thing. The seller has an entire planet to sell to. The US has about 25% of the money to buy things with, but even then only because we all like your money. Moment we stop liking your money, that probably drops to 20%.
- SilverElfin 9mo agoI’m not sure why this logic isn’t more mainstream. Half the country is clamoring for tariffs, bans on H1Bs, offshoring taxes, etc. They’re not connecting the dots on how this affects innovation, the economy, debt, taxation, etc. Is it a failure of education or a culture of rejecting it?
- morleytj 9mo agoFor the US, it's not too out of the norm historically speaking. Up until relatively recently tariffs were very popular in the US despite the clear understanding by academics that they were incredibly damaging to the economy. Political movements based around protectionist economic arguments have a long history in the US. For an example, take a look at the 1888 US presidential election, which largely revolved around tariffs. Grover Cleveland lost re-election due to being part of the pro-business wing of the Democrats, and he came to the conclusion that tariffs were a negative to the economy overall, while his opponents were strongly protectionist. After McKinley's Republicans won the election on a protectionist platform, he instituted the McKinley tariffs (average import duties of around ~50%), which were devastating to the economy despite being extremely popular with the nation in the election. It led to massive price increases which led to the re-election of Grover Cleveland in 1892 (only other non-consecutive term president aside from Trump). Despite expert opinion being fairly solidified against tariffs even at the time, the idea of "protecting American business" and "punishing other countries for their unequal trade deficits with the US" was pretty popular with specific interest groups! Parts of this sound rather familiar, do they not? I would then argue that it points to a cultural element, out of the two options of a failure of education or a culture of rejecting it. History certainly rhymes on this point.
- trgn 9mo agoalso, future of USD-value is highly uncertain, dropped 10% last year, likely to drop more if interest rates keep dropping
- garbawarb 9mo agoThat makes the US a more compelling place for foreign capital to invest in talent though.
- stackghost 9mo agoIt makes it more attractive for FOREX trading, maybe, but economic instability (which Trump is absolutely fomenting) is anathema to investors.
- trgn 9mo agoLike your optimism
- tick_tock_tick 9mo agoI mean that's a big part of why so many people want the USA dollar to go even lower. The administration has been very explicit that they want a cheaper dollar but unlike a lot of their other polices that goal has a lot of support among economists.
- cco 9mo agoThe administration's target was an additional 20% devaluation or so by next year, they want to devalue by about 30% total
- dwpdwpdwpdwpdwp 9mo agoI work for an global company in the industrial automation space. Not only is there is a major effort underway to offshore jobs and manufacturing from the US, but our customers around the world are pulling way back on capital expenditures, citing US policy uncertainties as a primary reason.
- hshdhdhj4444 9mo agoYup, unfortunately my own job is at risk as our company has, if not explicitly at least in action, essentially ended technical hiring in the U.S. They’re basically downsizing the technical sides through attrition while hiring heavily abroad.
- gehwartzen 9mo agoExactly what’s happening at my company
- FuriouslyAdrift 9mo agoI work for a regional manufacturing company in the US and we have been booming since COVID (nearly doubling every year) and have not seen a slow down. Manufacturing firms seem to be doing really well, here (midwest US).
- javiramos 9mo agoWhat industry?
- FuriouslyAdrift 9mo agoPackaging. Boxes, shippers, pallets, parts transports for use within automotive and other factories, etc. Very little direct to consumer or display stuff. Analysts use packaging companies as a canary for manufacturing in general.
- javiramos 9mo ago
- UncleOxidant 9mo agoI'm not a multinational, but that's what I've been doing since February.
- tick_tock_tick 9mo agoIt sadly doesn't work that well with tariffs in play again anything done outside the USA has to pay and frankly other nation just don't spend like American's.