4 ms·

> Rust is actually a horrible language Can you expand a little?

by MeetingsBrowser 10mo ago

darkhorse13 10mo ago
They never said it's a horrible language.
- MeetingsBrowser 10mo ago
  The original comment was edited after I replied.
  - uecker 10mo ago
    Yes, sorry, apparently not quick enough. I actually do not think it is horrible. It is a nice language, but I still do not like it and see many downsides. What I hate though is how aggressively it is marketed. See my other response for details.
    - MeetingsBrowser 10mo ago
      That is fair. Rust is my most used language, and I agree Rust has many downsides and pain points. But for my work, the positives outweigh the downsides of other languages I've used (including Python, Java, C++, and C). But it ultimately depends on your situation. People elsewhere on this post are listing weaknesses of Rust that I consider to be strengths and vice versa.
    - IshKebab 10mo ago
      Nobody is marketing it. It doesn't have a marketing budget. What you're seeing are lots of people that really like it because it's really good. Not flawless obviously but a significant improvement on C and C++.
      - uecker 10mo ago
        I see a lot of activity of very specific parts of the industry promoting it. But also enthusiasts doing aggressive marketing are doing aggressive marketing - even if they do not have a budget. Whether it is an improvement is debatable. From my perspective, it is an improvement in some aspects and a significant step back in others. What is unacceptable though is the significant hate and pressure towards people who have other priorities and preferences, which is created by the "we must stamp out memory safety issues at all cost and Rust is the solution" narrative.
        IshKebab 10mo ago
        > Whether it is an improvement is debatable. Not really. > it is an improvement in some aspects and a significant step back in others Of course. Very few improvements are better in every way. There's always something you can find to like about the old solution. Horses are friendlier than cars. Records allow bigger artwork than CDs. Unlike DVDs (at first anyway) you can write to VHS. Unlike Typescript, Javascript doesn't need a compile step. FORTRAN77 fits nicely on punch cards. That doesn't mean there's really any serious debate about them being improvements. I will freely admit that Rust has only average compile time (though it's better than C++ at this point), high complexity, and async Rust is full of footguns. But I could come up with a much longer list of complaints for C. > we must stamp out memory safety issues at all cost and Rust is the solution Yeah I think memory safety is actually probably not the most important thing about Rust. Having a modern strong type system is arguably more significant. Memory safety is important too of course - even if you don't care about security memory safety issues are often plain hard to debug bugs.
        uecker 9mo ago
        I program C a lot and I do not have to spent any noticeable time on debugging memory issues. I think all these arguments are essentially a strawman based on a very bad worst-case old-style C code - ignoring useful tooling and modern style can change the picture a lot.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]

> Rust is actually a horrible language Can you expand a little?

darkhorse13 10mo ago

They never said it's a horrible language.

MeetingsBrowser 10mo ago
The original comment was edited after I replied.
- uecker 10mo ago
  Yes, sorry, apparently not quick enough. I actually do not think it is horrible. It is a nice language, but I still do not like it and see many downsides. What I hate though is how aggressively it is marketed. See my other response for details.
  - MeetingsBrowser 10mo ago
    That is fair. Rust is my most used language, and I agree Rust has many downsides and pain points. But for my work, the positives outweigh the downsides of other languages I've used (including Python, Java, C++, and C). But it ultimately depends on your situation. People elsewhere on this post are listing weaknesses of Rust that I consider to be strengths and vice versa.
  - IshKebab 10mo ago
    Nobody is marketing it. It doesn't have a marketing budget. What you're seeing are lots of people that really like it because it's really good. Not flawless obviously but a significant improvement on C and C++.
    - uecker 10mo ago
      I see a lot of activity of very specific parts of the industry promoting it. But also enthusiasts doing aggressive marketing are doing aggressive marketing - even if they do not have a budget. Whether it is an improvement is debatable. From my perspective, it is an improvement in some aspects and a significant step back in others. What is unacceptable though is the significant hate and pressure towards people who have other priorities and preferences, which is created by the "we must stamp out memory safety issues at all cost and Rust is the solution" narrative.
      - IshKebab 10mo ago
        > Whether it is an improvement is debatable. Not really. > it is an improvement in some aspects and a significant step back in others Of course. Very few improvements are better in every way. There's always something you can find to like about the old solution. Horses are friendlier than cars. Records allow bigger artwork than CDs. Unlike DVDs (at first anyway) you can write to VHS. Unlike Typescript, Javascript doesn't need a compile step. FORTRAN77 fits nicely on punch cards. That doesn't mean there's really any serious debate about them being improvements. I will freely admit that Rust has only average compile time (though it's better than C++ at this point), high complexity, and async Rust is full of footguns. But I could come up with a much longer list of complaints for C. > we must stamp out memory safety issues at all cost and Rust is the solution Yeah I think memory safety is actually probably not the most important thing about Rust. Having a modern strong type system is arguably more significant. Memory safety is important too of course - even if you don't care about security memory safety issues are often plain hard to debug bugs.
        uecker 9mo ago
        I program C a lot and I do not have to spent any noticeable time on debugging memory issues. I think all these arguments are essentially a strawman based on a very bad worst-case old-style C code - ignoring useful tooling and modern style can change the picture a lot.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]