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Laptop names are even worse: > Are ZBooks good or do I want an OmniBook or ProBook? Within ZBook, is Ultra or Fury better? Do I want a G1a or a G1i? Oh you sel

Laptop names are even worse: > Are ZBooks good or do I want an OmniBook or ProBook? Within ZBook, is Ultra or Fury better? Do I want a G1a or a G1i? Oh you sell ZBook Firefly G11, I liked that TV show, is that one good? https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2025/11/29/bikeshedding-or-laptop.html https://geohot.github.io/blog/jekyll/update/2025/11/29/bikes...

lostlogin 10mo ago
And that root of all that shit lies Apple and the ‘book’ suffix.
- kergonath 10mo ago
  Apple is very consistent. You have the MacBook Air (lighter, more portable variant) and the MacBook Pro (more expensive and powerful variant). They don’t mess around with model numbers.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - lostlogin 10mo ago
    > Apple is very consistent. You have the MacBook Air (lighter, more portable variant) and the MacBook Pro (more expensive and powerful variant). What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. Or MacOS? Versioning got a bit weird after 10.9, due the X thing. They do mess around with model numbers and have just done it again with the change to year numbers. I don’t particularly care but they aren’t all clean and pure. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/28/gurman-version-years https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/28/gurman-version-...
    - stefanfisk 10mo ago
      It was a response to you specifically calling out the book suffix. And what was unclear iBook VS PowerBook?
      - lostlogin 10mo ago
        The iBook store. Sorry, I thought you were saying that they don’t use model numbers at all. I think you were actually saying that they don’t just them for laptops.
        wtallis 10mo ago
        "iBook" referred to a laptop from 1999 to 2006. "iBooks" referred to the eBook reader app and store from 2010 to 2019. I'll grant that there is some possibility for confusion, but only if the context of the conversation spans multiple decades but doesn't make it clear whether you're talking about hardware or software.
    - kergonath 10mo ago
      > What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Back then, there were iBooks (entry-level) and PowerBooks (professional, high performance and expensive). There had been PowerBooks since way back in 1991, well before any ebook reader. I am not sure what your gripe is. > Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. There’s a hole in the series. In what way is it a problem, and how on earth is it similar to the situation described in the parent? > Or MacOS? Versioning got a bit weird after 10.9, due the X thing. It never got weird. After 10.9.5 came 10.10.0. Version numbers are not decimals. Seriously, do you have a point apart from "Apple bad"?
      - lostlogin 10mo ago
        You were saying that Apple is very consistent. I’m pointing out they aren’t particularly. > It never got weird. After 10.9.5 came 10.10.0. Version numbers are not decimals. They turned one of the numbers into a letter then started numbering again. There was Mac OS 9, then Mac OS X. That got incremented up past 10. You say they don’t mess around with model numbers. Yes they do, with software and hardware. I like using them both.
        kergonath 10mo ago
        > They turned one of the numbers into a letter then started numbering again. They did not. It has been MacOS X 10.0 through macOS 10.15. In never was X.1 or anything like that.
        MBCook 10mo ago
        Right. MacOS X was the marketing name. But it was pronounced 10, just a stylization with Roman numerals. The version number the OS reported always said 10.whatever. Exactly as you said.
        kergonath 10mo ago
        Yes, and you did sound silly when saying it out loud the official way (OS ten ten ten was a famous one, for Yosemite).
  - bebna 10mo ago
    I got a MacBook. No, not an air or pro, just MacBook.
    - kergonath 10mo ago
      Back when there were MacBooks, it was MacBook (standard model), MacBook Air (lighter variant), and MacBook Pro (more expensive, high-performance variant). Sure, 3 is more complicated than 2, but come on. If you really want to complain, you can go back to the first unibody MacBook, which did not fit that pattern, or the interim period when high-DPI displays were being rolled out progressively, but let’s be serious. The fact is that even at the worst of times their range could be described in 2 sentences. Now, try to do that for any other computer brand. To my knowledge, he only other with an understandable lineup was Microsoft, before they lost interest.
      - lostlogin 10mo ago
        > The fact is that even at the worst of times their range could be described in 2 sentences. It’s a good time to buy one. They are all good. It would be interesting to know how many SKUs are hidden behind the simple purchase interface on their site. With the various storage and colour options, it must be over 30.
        kergonath 10mo ago
        Loads, I assume. But those are things like "MacBook Pro M1 Max with a 1TB SSD and a matte screen coating" versus "MacBook Pro M1 with a 256GB SSD and a standard screen". The granularity of say Dell’s product numbers is not enough for that either, and you still need a long product number when searching their knowledge base.
  - librasteve 10mo ago
    waiting for a MacBook Vapour
  - yencabulator 10mo ago
    Apple is so "consistent" the way to know which kind of an Air or Pro it is, is to find the tiny print on the bottom that's a jumble of letters like "MGNE3" and google it. And depending on what you're trying to use it for, you need to map it to a string like "MacBookAir10,1" or "A2337" or "Macbook Air Late 2022". Oh also the Macbook Air (2020) is a different processor architecture than Macbook Air (2020).
    - kergonath 10mo ago
      The canonical way if you need a version number is the "about this Mac" dialog (here it says Mac Studio 2022). If you need to be technical, System Information says Mac13,1 and these identifiers have been extremely consistent for about 30 years. Your product number encodes much more information than that, and about the only time when it is actually required is to see whether it is eligible for a recall. > Oh also the Macbook Air (2020) is a different processor architecture than Macbook Air (2020). Right, except that one is MacBook Air (retina, 2020), Macbookair9,1, and the other is MacBook Air (M1, 2020), MacBookAir10,1. It happens occasionally, but the fact that you had to go back 5 years to a period in which the lineup underwent a double transition speaks volume.
- edgineer 10mo ago
  Apple did not invent the -book suffix for model names of notebook computers.
  - lostlogin 10mo ago
    Thanks - I didn’t know that. Looks like it was Notebook in 1982 and Dynabook after that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_computer
jhickok 10mo ago
TIL Geohot pretty much want the exact same thing in a laptop. Basically a Macbook Pro running Linux.

lostlogin 10mo ago

And that root of all that shit lies Apple and the ‘book’ suffix.

kergonath 10mo ago
Apple is very consistent. You have the MacBook Air (lighter, more portable variant) and the MacBook Pro (more expensive and powerful variant). They don’t mess around with model numbers.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- lostlogin 10mo ago
  > Apple is very consistent. You have the MacBook Air (lighter, more portable variant) and the MacBook Pro (more expensive and powerful variant). What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. Or MacOS? Versioning got a bit weird after 10.9, due the X thing. They do mess around with model numbers and have just done it again with the change to year numbers. I don’t particularly care but they aren’t all clean and pure. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/28/gurman-version-years https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/05/28/gurman-version-...
  - stefanfisk 10mo ago
    It was a response to you specifically calling out the book suffix. And what was unclear iBook VS PowerBook?
    - lostlogin 10mo ago
      The iBook store. Sorry, I thought you were saying that they don’t use model numbers at all. I think you were actually saying that they don’t just them for laptops.
      - wtallis 10mo ago
        "iBook" referred to a laptop from 1999 to 2006. "iBooks" referred to the eBook reader app and store from 2010 to 2019. I'll grant that there is some possibility for confusion, but only if the context of the conversation spans multiple decades but doesn't make it clear whether you're talking about hardware or software.
  - kergonath 10mo ago
    > What about the iBook? That wasn’t tidy. Ebooks or laptops? Back then, there were iBooks (entry-level) and PowerBooks (professional, high performance and expensive). There had been PowerBooks since way back in 1991, well before any ebook reader. I am not sure what your gripe is. > Or the iPhone 9? That didn’t exist. There’s a hole in the series. In what way is it a problem, and how on earth is it similar to the situation described in the parent? > Or MacOS? Versioning got a bit weird after 10.9, due the X thing. It never got weird. After 10.9.5 came 10.10.0. Version numbers are not decimals. Seriously, do you have a point apart from "Apple bad"?
    - lostlogin 10mo ago
      You were saying that Apple is very consistent. I’m pointing out they aren’t particularly. > It never got weird. After 10.9.5 came 10.10.0. Version numbers are not decimals. They turned one of the numbers into a letter then started numbering again. There was Mac OS 9, then Mac OS X. That got incremented up past 10. You say they don’t mess around with model numbers. Yes they do, with software and hardware. I like using them both.
      - kergonath 10mo ago
        > They turned one of the numbers into a letter then started numbering again. They did not. It has been MacOS X 10.0 through macOS 10.15. In never was X.1 or anything like that.
        MBCook 10mo ago
        Right. MacOS X was the marketing name. But it was pronounced 10, just a stylization with Roman numerals. The version number the OS reported always said 10.whatever. Exactly as you said.
        kergonath 10mo ago
        Yes, and you did sound silly when saying it out loud the official way (OS ten ten ten was a famous one, for Yosemite).
- bebna 10mo ago
  I got a MacBook. No, not an air or pro, just MacBook.
  - kergonath 10mo ago
    Back when there were MacBooks, it was MacBook (standard model), MacBook Air (lighter variant), and MacBook Pro (more expensive, high-performance variant). Sure, 3 is more complicated than 2, but come on. If you really want to complain, you can go back to the first unibody MacBook, which did not fit that pattern, or the interim period when high-DPI displays were being rolled out progressively, but let’s be serious. The fact is that even at the worst of times their range could be described in 2 sentences. Now, try to do that for any other computer brand. To my knowledge, he only other with an understandable lineup was Microsoft, before they lost interest.
    - lostlogin 10mo ago
      > The fact is that even at the worst of times their range could be described in 2 sentences. It’s a good time to buy one. They are all good. It would be interesting to know how many SKUs are hidden behind the simple purchase interface on their site. With the various storage and colour options, it must be over 30.
      - kergonath 10mo ago
        Loads, I assume. But those are things like "MacBook Pro M1 Max with a 1TB SSD and a matte screen coating" versus "MacBook Pro M1 with a 256GB SSD and a standard screen". The granularity of say Dell’s product numbers is not enough for that either, and you still need a long product number when searching their knowledge base.
- librasteve 10mo ago
  waiting for a MacBook Vapour
- yencabulator 10mo ago
  Apple is so "consistent" the way to know which kind of an Air or Pro it is, is to find the tiny print on the bottom that's a jumble of letters like "MGNE3" and google it. And depending on what you're trying to use it for, you need to map it to a string like "MacBookAir10,1" or "A2337" or "Macbook Air Late 2022". Oh also the Macbook Air (2020) is a different processor architecture than Macbook Air (2020).
  - kergonath 10mo ago
    The canonical way if you need a version number is the "about this Mac" dialog (here it says Mac Studio 2022). If you need to be technical, System Information says Mac13,1 and these identifiers have been extremely consistent for about 30 years. Your product number encodes much more information than that, and about the only time when it is actually required is to see whether it is eligible for a recall. > Oh also the Macbook Air (2020) is a different processor architecture than Macbook Air (2020). Right, except that one is MacBook Air (retina, 2020), Macbookair9,1, and the other is MacBook Air (M1, 2020), MacBookAir10,1. It happens occasionally, but the fact that you had to go back 5 years to a period in which the lineup underwent a double transition speaks volume.
edgineer 10mo ago
Apple did not invent the -book suffix for model names of notebook computers.
- lostlogin 10mo ago
  Thanks - I didn’t know that. Looks like it was Notebook in 1982 and Dynabook after that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_computer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notebook_computer

jhickok 10mo ago

TIL Geohot pretty much want the exact same thing in a laptop. Basically a Macbook Pro running Linux.