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With one hand they do so much to protect consumer rights for us citizens, but with the other hand they build a survailance state. The US is doing that too, and

With one hand they do so much to protect consumer rights for us citizens, but with the other hand they build a survailance state. The US is doing that too, and has been pretty open about it for years.

rockskon 10mo ago
Europe wants so very much worse in many cases.
- zwnow 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - notarobot123 10mo ago
    You don't like the song so you changed the words but you're still singing along to the same tune.
  - modo_mario 10mo ago
    Other than the persistent exceptions (hungary and such) those parties either didn't win or only did so very recently. They were also typically opposed to these kinds of surveillance measures being talked about(of course it's easy to argue they would turn around on this when in power) but it makes this whole argument fall kind of flat. As for the rest.... given that my country Belgium nearly balkanized in the past due to sectarianism and it's influence on politics this kind of stuff was a pretty obvious big downside to the migration of the past 2 decades from the start. (It really does become a ball and chain on every kind of effective policy) Especially since we're a bit ahead of many countries on the migration front too.
    - exceptione 10mo ago
      > They were also typically opposed to these kinds of surveillance measures The mistake one should not make is thinking that those parties have any policy for the common good. People, from journalists to the man on the street, ignore all the lies, the crazy things, the falsehoods refuted by science, the attacks on the rule of law--only to discuss their political marketing flyer like it would constitute any real policy, as if these parties leaderships are sponsored just for that. And when these populists get in power and do the complete opposite of everything they had promised, then the press will miss that, because the press is so easily distracted by the bullshitting clowns. In the mean time, fewer and fewer people believe in democracy anymore. His whole argument is extremely solid. I am sorry.
      - modo_mario 10mo ago
        >His whole argument is extremely solid. I am sorry. His argument implies it is because of these parties when again. It's countries where they are not in power leading this charge and this started well before the increase in popularity of said parties. Meanwhile these parties typically vote against. >get in power and do the complete opposite of everything they had promised, then I even acknowledge that in the next sentence.
  - ljsprague 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - wizzwizz4 10mo ago
      "Great Replacement" is a fiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement
      - ljsprague 10mo ago
        I didn't say "Great Replacement."
        wizzwizz4 10mo ago
        What distinction are you drawing?
        ljsprague 10mo ago
        You hope to discredit the argument that European peoples are being replaced by categorizing it as a crazy conspiracy theory about Jews or whatever. I'm merely making a conclusion based on current immigration trends.
    - OKRainbowKid 10mo ago
      I have the impression that most people believing and repeating this "great replacement" narrative are not members of the demographics they claim are being replaced. To me it seems mostly spread by people living outside of Europe trying to paint Europe in a bad light in order to push fear and anti-immigration policies in the general west.
      - rithdmc 10mo ago
        Unfortunately, it's not an uncommon thing to hear from people when performing community outreach (think door knocking). External push, definitely, but it's also being repeated by the demographic this narrative is being pushed to. I can't comment on whether or not they believe it, but it's certainly repeated by some here in Ireland.
  - nec4b 10mo ago
    >>Oh no some immigrant stole something out of my garden I thought it was more because of them driving over people at Christmas markets, forming rape gangs or stabbing random people on the streets. It's deep intellectually dishonesty like yours that is driving them to that "party". Which is a bit ironic isn't it?
    - zwnow 10mo ago
      If you really believe this you need help
      - nec4b 10mo ago
        Oh, should we tell the BBC and Wikipedia to remove all these entries then: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2dz7r708dxo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2dz7r708dxo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Magdeburg_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Magdeburg_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_E...
        zwnow 10mo ago
        You are aware that these are individual cases right? How many crimes do Germans commit that aren't blown up in the media? Are you this retarded?
        nec4b 10mo ago
        You have a weird sense of humanity if any of the attached links make you feel they were overblown. Why should Germans import all that necessary extra death and trauma when they have enough of their own? >> Are you this retarded? You win!
- boudin 10mo ago
  What the US built is already dystopian, there's nothing to lose moving away from that. Things like chat control are not a good thing neither, but adding regulation can also be beneficial and lead to interoperable standards. That's where the US failed big time. E.g. things like having standardised chargers seems like a no brainer but it required regulators to step in for it to happen.
- Phelinofist 10mo ago
  What things do you mean exactly? I'm not following all of that too closely
- kergonath 10mo ago
  It’s not "the EU" disappearing people in unmarked vans. It is not perfect, but it follows procedures and protocols to a fault. The EU is also not a monolith, it’s different entities with not perfectly aligned interests, some of which representing member states, some of which citizens, again with significant divergence of opinion. The court of justice frequently finds against member states governments, for example. TL;DR: "the EU" does not want things. Different participants want different things and what happens in the end is the result of a consensus building process.
lostlogin 10mo ago
The us is working to protect consumers too? Or just the surveillance bit?
- anigbrowl 10mo ago
  Just the surveillance bit. I thought it was obvious given the rapid ongoing dismantling of consumer protections, on rereading I see it is not so clear.

rockskon 10mo ago

Europe wants so very much worse in many cases.

zwnow 10mo ago
[flagged]
- notarobot123 10mo ago
  You don't like the song so you changed the words but you're still singing along to the same tune.
- modo_mario 10mo ago
  Other than the persistent exceptions (hungary and such) those parties either didn't win or only did so very recently. They were also typically opposed to these kinds of surveillance measures being talked about(of course it's easy to argue they would turn around on this when in power) but it makes this whole argument fall kind of flat. As for the rest.... given that my country Belgium nearly balkanized in the past due to sectarianism and it's influence on politics this kind of stuff was a pretty obvious big downside to the migration of the past 2 decades from the start. (It really does become a ball and chain on every kind of effective policy) Especially since we're a bit ahead of many countries on the migration front too.
  - exceptione 10mo ago
    > They were also typically opposed to these kinds of surveillance measures The mistake one should not make is thinking that those parties have any policy for the common good. People, from journalists to the man on the street, ignore all the lies, the crazy things, the falsehoods refuted by science, the attacks on the rule of law--only to discuss their political marketing flyer like it would constitute any real policy, as if these parties leaderships are sponsored just for that. And when these populists get in power and do the complete opposite of everything they had promised, then the press will miss that, because the press is so easily distracted by the bullshitting clowns. In the mean time, fewer and fewer people believe in democracy anymore. His whole argument is extremely solid. I am sorry.
    - modo_mario 10mo ago
      >His whole argument is extremely solid. I am sorry. His argument implies it is because of these parties when again. It's countries where they are not in power leading this charge and this started well before the increase in popularity of said parties. Meanwhile these parties typically vote against. >get in power and do the complete opposite of everything they had promised, then I even acknowledge that in the next sentence.
- ljsprague 10mo ago
  [flagged]
  - wizzwizz4 10mo ago
    "Great Replacement" is a fiction. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement
    - ljsprague 10mo ago
      I didn't say "Great Replacement."
      - wizzwizz4 10mo ago
        What distinction are you drawing?
        ljsprague 10mo ago
        You hope to discredit the argument that European peoples are being replaced by categorizing it as a crazy conspiracy theory about Jews or whatever. I'm merely making a conclusion based on current immigration trends.
  - OKRainbowKid 10mo ago
    I have the impression that most people believing and repeating this "great replacement" narrative are not members of the demographics they claim are being replaced. To me it seems mostly spread by people living outside of Europe trying to paint Europe in a bad light in order to push fear and anti-immigration policies in the general west.
    - rithdmc 10mo ago
      Unfortunately, it's not an uncommon thing to hear from people when performing community outreach (think door knocking). External push, definitely, but it's also being repeated by the demographic this narrative is being pushed to. I can't comment on whether or not they believe it, but it's certainly repeated by some here in Ireland.
- nec4b 10mo ago
  >>Oh no some immigrant stole something out of my garden I thought it was more because of them driving over people at Christmas markets, forming rape gangs or stabbing random people on the streets. It's deep intellectually dishonesty like yours that is driving them to that "party". Which is a bit ironic isn't it?
  - zwnow 10mo ago
    If you really believe this you need help
    - nec4b 10mo ago
      Oh, should we tell the BBC and Wikipedia to remove all these entries then: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2dz7r708dxo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2dz7r708dxo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Magdeburg_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Magdeburg_car_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_Eve_sexual_assaults https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_New_Year%27s_E...
      - zwnow 10mo ago
        You are aware that these are individual cases right? How many crimes do Germans commit that aren't blown up in the media? Are you this retarded?
        nec4b 10mo ago
        You have a weird sense of humanity if any of the attached links make you feel they were overblown. Why should Germans import all that necessary extra death and trauma when they have enough of their own? >> Are you this retarded? You win!
boudin 10mo ago
What the US built is already dystopian, there's nothing to lose moving away from that. Things like chat control are not a good thing neither, but adding regulation can also be beneficial and lead to interoperable standards. That's where the US failed big time. E.g. things like having standardised chargers seems like a no brainer but it required regulators to step in for it to happen.
Phelinofist 10mo ago
What things do you mean exactly? I'm not following all of that too closely
kergonath 10mo ago
It’s not "the EU" disappearing people in unmarked vans. It is not perfect, but it follows procedures and protocols to a fault. The EU is also not a monolith, it’s different entities with not perfectly aligned interests, some of which representing member states, some of which citizens, again with significant divergence of opinion. The court of justice frequently finds against member states governments, for example. TL;DR: "the EU" does not want things. Different participants want different things and what happens in the end is the result of a consensus building process.

lostlogin 10mo ago

The us is working to protect consumers too? Or just the surveillance bit?

anigbrowl 10mo ago
Just the surveillance bit. I thought it was obvious given the rapid ongoing dismantling of consumer protections, on rereading I see it is not so clear.