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I will wait for the actual reviews from users. But I lost faith in Intel chips. I was in CES2024 and saw snapdragon X elite chip running a local LLM (llama I b

by sbinnee 9mo ago

I will wait for the actual reviews from users. But I lost faith in Intel chips. I was in CES2024 and saw snapdragon X elite chip running a local LLM (llama I believe). How did it turn out? Users cannot use that laptop except for running an LLM. They had no plans for translation layer like Apple Rosetta. Intel would be different for sure in that regard, but I just don't think that it will fly against Ryzen AI chips or Apple silicon.

ZuLuuuuuu 9mo ago
Isn't it a bit exaggerating to say that users cannot use Snapdragon laptops except for running LLMs? Qualcomm and Microsoft already has a translation layer named Prism (not as good as Rosetta but pretty good nevertheless): https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x8... I agree with losing faith in Intel chips though.
- webdevver 9mo ago
  >Isn't it a bit exaggerating to say that users cannot use Snapdragon laptops except for running LLMs? I think maybe what OP meant was that the memory occupied by the model meant you couldn't do anything alongside inferecing, e.g. have a compile job or whatever running (unless you unload the model once you've done asking it questions.) to be honest, we could really do with RAM abundance. Imagine if 128GB ram became like 8GB ram is today - now that would normalize local LLM inferencing (or atleast, make a decent attempt.) ofcourse youd need the bandwidth too...
- blell 9mo ago
  Prism is not as good as Rosetta 2? At least Prism supports AVX.
deleted 9mo ago
[deleted]
Numerlor 9mo ago
Lost faith from what? On x86 mobile Lunar lake chips are the clear best for battery life at the moment, and mobile arrowlake is competitive with amd's offerings. Only thing they're missing is a Strix halo equivalent but AMD messed that one up and there's like 2 laptops with it. The new intel node seems to be kinda weaker than tsmc's going by the frequency numbers of the CPUs, but what'll matter the most in a laptop is real battery life anyway
- aurareturn 9mo ago
  Lunar Lake throttles a lot. It can lose 50% of its performance on battery life. It's not the same as Apple Silicon where the performance is exactly the same plugged in or not. Lunar Lake is also very slow in ST and MT compared to Apple. Qualcomm's X Elite 2 SoCs have a much better chance of duplicating the Macbook experience.
  - Numerlor 9mo ago
    Nobody is duplicating the macbook experience because Apple is integrating both hardware and os, while others are fighting Windows, and OEMs being horrible at firmware. LNL should only power throttle when you go to power saver modes, battery life will suffer when you let it boost high on all cores but you're not getting great battery life when doing heavy all core loads either way. Overall MT should be better on Panther lake with the unified architecture, as afaik LNLs main problem was being too expensive so higher end high core count SKUs were served by mobile arrow lake. And we're also getting what seems to be a very good iGPU while AMD's iGPUs outside of Strix Halo are barely worth talking about ST is about the same as AMD. Apple being ahead is nothing out of the ordinary since their ARM switch, as there's the node advantage, what I mentioned with the OS, and just better architecture as they plainly have the best people at the moment working at it
    - aurareturn 9mo ago
      LNL throttles heavily even on the default profile, not just power saver modes.[0] Meanwhile, Qualcomm's X Elite 1 did not throttle. Lunar Lake uses TSMC N3 for compute tile. There is no node advantage. Yet, M4 is 42% faster in ST and M5 is 50% faster based on Geekbench 6 ST. [0]https://www.pcworld.com/article/2463714/tested-intels-lunar-lake-wants-you-to-forget-snapdragon-ever-existed.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2463714/tested-intels-lunar-...
WithinReason 9mo ago
Their comparisons claim to be performing better than both

by sbinnee 9mo ago

ZuLuuuuuu 9mo ago

Isn't it a bit exaggerating to say that users cannot use Snapdragon laptops except for running LLMs? Qualcomm and Microsoft already has a translation layer named Prism (not as good as Rosetta but pretty good nevertheless): https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x86-emulation https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/apps-on-arm-x8... I agree with losing faith in Intel chips though.

webdevver 9mo ago
>Isn't it a bit exaggerating to say that users cannot use Snapdragon laptops except for running LLMs? I think maybe what OP meant was that the memory occupied by the model meant you couldn't do anything alongside inferecing, e.g. have a compile job or whatever running (unless you unload the model once you've done asking it questions.) to be honest, we could really do with RAM abundance. Imagine if 128GB ram became like 8GB ram is today - now that would normalize local LLM inferencing (or atleast, make a decent attempt.) ofcourse youd need the bandwidth too...
blell 9mo ago
Prism is not as good as Rosetta 2? At least Prism supports AVX.

deleted 9mo ago

[deleted]

Numerlor 9mo ago

Lost faith from what? On x86 mobile Lunar lake chips are the clear best for battery life at the moment, and mobile arrowlake is competitive with amd's offerings. Only thing they're missing is a Strix halo equivalent but AMD messed that one up and there's like 2 laptops with it. The new intel node seems to be kinda weaker than tsmc's going by the frequency numbers of the CPUs, but what'll matter the most in a laptop is real battery life anyway

aurareturn 9mo ago
Lunar Lake throttles a lot. It can lose 50% of its performance on battery life. It's not the same as Apple Silicon where the performance is exactly the same plugged in or not. Lunar Lake is also very slow in ST and MT compared to Apple. Qualcomm's X Elite 2 SoCs have a much better chance of duplicating the Macbook experience.
- Numerlor 9mo ago
  Nobody is duplicating the macbook experience because Apple is integrating both hardware and os, while others are fighting Windows, and OEMs being horrible at firmware. LNL should only power throttle when you go to power saver modes, battery life will suffer when you let it boost high on all cores but you're not getting great battery life when doing heavy all core loads either way. Overall MT should be better on Panther lake with the unified architecture, as afaik LNLs main problem was being too expensive so higher end high core count SKUs were served by mobile arrow lake. And we're also getting what seems to be a very good iGPU while AMD's iGPUs outside of Strix Halo are barely worth talking about ST is about the same as AMD. Apple being ahead is nothing out of the ordinary since their ARM switch, as there's the node advantage, what I mentioned with the OS, and just better architecture as they plainly have the best people at the moment working at it
  - aurareturn 9mo ago
    LNL throttles heavily even on the default profile, not just power saver modes.[0] Meanwhile, Qualcomm's X Elite 1 did not throttle. Lunar Lake uses TSMC N3 for compute tile. There is no node advantage. Yet, M4 is 42% faster in ST and M5 is 50% faster based on Geekbench 6 ST. [0]https://www.pcworld.com/article/2463714/tested-intels-lunar-lake-wants-you-to-forget-snapdragon-ever-existed.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/2463714/tested-intels-lunar-...

WithinReason 9mo ago

Their comparisons claim to be performing better than both