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Among endurance athletes collagen supplements have become increasingly popular the past couple years -- from what I understand the evidence is kind of mixed tho

Among endurance athletes collagen supplements have become increasingly popular the past couple years -- from what I understand the evidence is kind of mixed though e.g. https://thefeed.com/products/pillar-performance-collagen-1?variant=41261266599999&queryID=052b75811fded336f2838a757ad287ad https://thefeed.com/products/pillar-performance-collagen-1?v...

IsTom 9mo ago
I don't get what's the supposed mechanism of action here. Collagen is a hard to digest protein and it has to get digested to be processed and then it's no longer collagen. Why not just eat any other protein source instead?
- kelipso 9mo ago
  Different protein sources have different amino acid compositions and they have different effects on the body.
  - IsTom 9mo ago
    Still, if you eat enough complete protein sources you'll have all the amino acids you need.
    - kelipso 9mo ago
      Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on a variety of factors including the activities you do, your age, etc. Maybe athletes need more collagen compared to people who don’t exercise, etc, etc. Also complete protein sources are definitely not easy to get. Good luck if you have dietary constraints.
      - loeg 9mo ago
        Notably, whey is a complete protein source and very easy to get, while collagen is a crappy source.
        BobaFloutist 9mo ago
        I just wish whey was as easy to get unflavored. Let me handle the flavoring, you provide the protein. Yes, I'm aware you can buy unflavored whey protein, but it's more expensive and you have to order it online. I can get a huge tub of "Delicious quadruple chocolate delight" BS from Costco for comparative pennies.
      - fc417fc802 9mo ago
        > Also complete protein sources are definitely not easy to get. ... all of the essential amino acids? What is difficult about that?
      - btylke 9mo ago
        Quinoa is a complete protein, containing all amino acids that the body cannot produce on its own, and is gluten free.
        kelipso 9mo ago
        You need to eat a ton of quinoa. Only the most dedicated vegan bodybuilder will eat that much quinoa. No thanks. Also, only animal sources contain hydroxyproline amino acid in significant amounts, which you pretty much only get from collagen sources. So while quinoa and other like even whey might advertise themselves as complete protein sources, no, they do not contain all the amino acids humans can use in significant amounts.
        loeg 9mo ago
        Vegan bodybuilders would just use pea/rice protein extracts, which are about as commercially available as whey (very).
        aziaziazi 9mo ago
        Hydroxyproline isn't essential though, humans can produce their need from collagen, which they also produce as well as most other animals. > You need to eat a ton of quinoa Most don't: at 4.4% protein, a 65kg man like me needs 1.5kg of cooked quinoa per day and it's not a big deal: - You'll digest it like a king: quinoa is full of soluble and insoluble fibers and you won't feel puffy for eating too much. Easy in, easy out. - Like milk or wheat, there's many transformations possible like flour, flakes, marinades, beverages, soups... alway a joy to cook and eat, no boredom with that grain. Can't speak for the bodybuilders though but I'm sure most manage they nutrition. I think soy/pea is more popular. By the way, very few eats only quinoa or any other single aliment. They also get amino acids from grains, pulses and seeds... even fruits like tomatoes but it's obviously negligible. Quinoa is also fulled with minerals, vitamins and it's proteins have the same biological value (BV) as beef - or more depending on the source. > its high-quality protein, complete set of amino-acids, and high content of minerals and vitamins. [0] > exceptional balance between oil, protein and fat [1] > Quinoa has a high biological value (73%), similar to that of beef (74%) [2] 0 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15528014.2022.2152608#d1e252 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15528014.2022.2... 1 https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.4158 https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa... 2 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303845280_Quinoa_Chenopodium_quinoa_Willd_from_Nutritional_Value_to_Potential_Health_Benefits_An_Integrative_Review https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303845280_Quinoa_Ch...
    - lII1lIlI11ll 9mo ago
      Likely yes, but I've had enough chicken breast for life during my fit 20s. I just don't feel like stuffing myself with tasteless sources of protein anymore and testy ones (burgers, steaks, grilled salmon, etc.) will cause unwanted side effects and risks when consumed in high amounts.
      - strken 9mo ago
        Even bodybuilders and powerlifters admit that 2g protein per kg of body weight is about all you need. You can get that with a normal diet and a couple of protein shakes, which taste fine if you use milk and half a banana. You don't need to eat a whole chicken breast for every meal. I made spaghetti bolognese last night and it had 60 grams of protein per 800 kcal serve. Admittedly I used lean kangaroo mince, because I'm Australian and it was on sale. Still: three meals like that and you wouldn't even need a protein shake.
        gilbetron 9mo ago
        > lean kangaroo mince I first read "mice" which was startling, then realized it was "mince" and then realized it was kangaroo! How would you describe the flavor?
        TsiCClawOfLight 9mo ago
        Gamy, a bit like deer.
      - fcpk 9mo ago
        I have yet to see anything against regular eating of fish and fatty fish other than the "scare" of heavy metals, which only applies for wild fish.
- mcswell 9mo ago
  I was going to say that too, thanks for beating me to it!
- chrisfosterelli 9mo ago
  Yes, that seems to sort of be the criticism and mixed results. Although not everyone has a complete protein diet so theoretically although it breaks down the idea is you then have all the things you need, should your body choose to use it to build collagen. But I agree, I'd rather start solving deficiencies at the diet level than the supplement level and haven't integrated collagen personally so far. TBH I suspect marketing plays a big role. "Collagen = good, therefore just buy it and eat it" makes logical sense if you don't actually do any research first.

IsTom 9mo ago

I don't get what's the supposed mechanism of action here. Collagen is a hard to digest protein and it has to get digested to be processed and then it's no longer collagen. Why not just eat any other protein source instead?

kelipso 9mo ago
Different protein sources have different amino acid compositions and they have different effects on the body.
- IsTom 9mo ago
  Still, if you eat enough complete protein sources you'll have all the amino acids you need.
  - kelipso 9mo ago
    Maybe, maybe not. It would depend on a variety of factors including the activities you do, your age, etc. Maybe athletes need more collagen compared to people who don’t exercise, etc, etc. Also complete protein sources are definitely not easy to get. Good luck if you have dietary constraints.
    - loeg 9mo ago
      Notably, whey is a complete protein source and very easy to get, while collagen is a crappy source.
      - BobaFloutist 9mo ago
        I just wish whey was as easy to get unflavored. Let me handle the flavoring, you provide the protein. Yes, I'm aware you can buy unflavored whey protein, but it's more expensive and you have to order it online. I can get a huge tub of "Delicious quadruple chocolate delight" BS from Costco for comparative pennies.
    - fc417fc802 9mo ago
      > Also complete protein sources are definitely not easy to get. ... all of the essential amino acids? What is difficult about that?
    - btylke 9mo ago
      Quinoa is a complete protein, containing all amino acids that the body cannot produce on its own, and is gluten free.
      - kelipso 9mo ago
        You need to eat a ton of quinoa. Only the most dedicated vegan bodybuilder will eat that much quinoa. No thanks. Also, only animal sources contain hydroxyproline amino acid in significant amounts, which you pretty much only get from collagen sources. So while quinoa and other like even whey might advertise themselves as complete protein sources, no, they do not contain all the amino acids humans can use in significant amounts.
        loeg 9mo ago
        Vegan bodybuilders would just use pea/rice protein extracts, which are about as commercially available as whey (very).
        aziaziazi 9mo ago
        Hydroxyproline isn't essential though, humans can produce their need from collagen, which they also produce as well as most other animals. > You need to eat a ton of quinoa Most don't: at 4.4% protein, a 65kg man like me needs 1.5kg of cooked quinoa per day and it's not a big deal: - You'll digest it like a king: quinoa is full of soluble and insoluble fibers and you won't feel puffy for eating too much. Easy in, easy out. - Like milk or wheat, there's many transformations possible like flour, flakes, marinades, beverages, soups... alway a joy to cook and eat, no boredom with that grain. Can't speak for the bodybuilders though but I'm sure most manage they nutrition. I think soy/pea is more popular. By the way, very few eats only quinoa or any other single aliment. They also get amino acids from grains, pulses and seeds... even fruits like tomatoes but it's obviously negligible. Quinoa is also fulled with minerals, vitamins and it's proteins have the same biological value (BV) as beef - or more depending on the source. > its high-quality protein, complete set of amino-acids, and high content of minerals and vitamins. [0] > exceptional balance between oil, protein and fat [1] > Quinoa has a high biological value (73%), similar to that of beef (74%) [2] 0 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15528014.2022.2152608#d1e252 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15528014.2022.2... 1 https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.4158 https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa... 2 https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303845280_Quinoa_Chenopodium_quinoa_Willd_from_Nutritional_Value_to_Potential_Health_Benefits_An_Integrative_Review https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303845280_Quinoa_Ch...
  - lII1lIlI11ll 9mo ago
    Likely yes, but I've had enough chicken breast for life during my fit 20s. I just don't feel like stuffing myself with tasteless sources of protein anymore and testy ones (burgers, steaks, grilled salmon, etc.) will cause unwanted side effects and risks when consumed in high amounts.
    - strken 9mo ago
      Even bodybuilders and powerlifters admit that 2g protein per kg of body weight is about all you need. You can get that with a normal diet and a couple of protein shakes, which taste fine if you use milk and half a banana. You don't need to eat a whole chicken breast for every meal. I made spaghetti bolognese last night and it had 60 grams of protein per 800 kcal serve. Admittedly I used lean kangaroo mince, because I'm Australian and it was on sale. Still: three meals like that and you wouldn't even need a protein shake.
      - gilbetron 9mo ago
        > lean kangaroo mince I first read "mice" which was startling, then realized it was "mince" and then realized it was kangaroo! How would you describe the flavor?
        TsiCClawOfLight 9mo ago
        Gamy, a bit like deer.
    - fcpk 9mo ago
      I have yet to see anything against regular eating of fish and fatty fish other than the "scare" of heavy metals, which only applies for wild fish.
mcswell 9mo ago
I was going to say that too, thanks for beating me to it!
chrisfosterelli 9mo ago
Yes, that seems to sort of be the criticism and mixed results. Although not everyone has a complete protein diet so theoretically although it breaks down the idea is you then have all the things you need, should your body choose to use it to build collagen. But I agree, I'd rather start solving deficiencies at the diet level than the supplement level and haven't integrated collagen personally so far. TBH I suspect marketing plays a big role. "Collagen = good, therefore just buy it and eat it" makes logical sense if you don't actually do any research first.