5 ms·

In over my head. How can I work with more advanced programmers?

59 points by chinmoy 14y ago

codemac 14y ago
Show you'll put in the time, and I've found pretty much anyone will help you out with areas you are less confident in. Also, I've found the Benjamin Franklin method of "ask someone to do something for you as a form of flattery" works amazingly well to get people to befriend/like you.
unwind 14y ago
This Q&A is part of a weekly series of posts highlighting common questions encountered by technophiles and answered by users at Stack Exchange [...] In other words, this is some content from a different web site, which we're re-publishing here because we can. I don't get it, what would be the idea of this, except for "content is good"? That people who might be interested in questions like this don't read the relevant SE sites, so they "need" Ars to step in and re-publish it? It's weirding me out.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- andrewcooke 14y ago
  mods - can we change the url to http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/165918/way-in-over-my-head-dealing-with-better-programmers http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/165918/way-in... ?
- joe_the_user 14y ago
  Uh, Stack Exchange gets people to post on there by letting its content out on the creative commons license (or whatever equivalent). IE, the posts don't belong to Stack Exchange any more than they belong to Arstechnica. They are doing what the license was intended to let them do. It is simply a matter of which presentation of the material do we like best.
- ta12121 14y ago
  I used to value Ars because they had actual writers, editors, and original content. This new trend they have of being another content aggregator is disappointing.
- dantiberian 14y ago
  I really like Ars highlighting these questions, I would often not have seen them if it wasn't for them republishing the answers. They also highlight questions which are relevant to people in the wider tech community that may not be working developers and expose them to some interesting questions. Ars is hardly becoming an aggregation site, IMO they have always had thoughtful, high quality writing with a balanced perspective. One article a week is not a sign of a change in strategy.
- lurker14 14y ago
  Yeah, why do people read "newspapers" and "encyclopedias" that are full of of rehashed information available as primary sources elsewhere?
- benologist 14y ago
  The point is SEO and social sites like ... this.
jiggy2011 14y ago
This is actually a problem I wish I had. I'd love to work with an uber programmer who was better than me as long as they had some patience , not too much ego and were happy to help me learn. What I find is more common though is working with very sub-par developers who have no interest in advancing their skills.
- rhizome 14y ago
  The last time I worked in a shop with "uber programmers," it was more like a CS circle-jerk oriented around who can come up with the more useless abstraction of working code. At any rate, your "as long as" qualification means you're probably looking for a company with older coders.
  - andrewcooke 14y ago
    that doesn't really make sense, does it? being a good programmer includes not creating useless abstractions, so what you're actually saying is "when i last worked with poor programmers they weren't very good". and, in response to that: well, duh.
    - rhizome 14y ago
      Well, these poor programmers who weren't very good sure knew a lot about how to make code worse! You're right though, it's a struggle to characterize people who know too much.
      - jiggy2011 14y ago
        You could argue they "Knew too much" but equally they could know too little. In other words they know enough about X to understand how to implement X but not enough but not enough about why to implement X.
        rhizome 14y ago
        You can quibble with what side of the fence I'm describing, but the facts (and my sense of them) remain. Yes, they didn't write good, maintainable code AIUI, and whether that's due to inexperience in writing maintainable code or to shoehorning CS training and metaprogramming into a web developer role is fairly irrelevant to me. As it happens, I think the latter is the bigger problem.
ExpiredLink 14y ago
> Lo and behold, my new job is filled with programmers with 5-10 years experience of pure coding and they all use the most modern aspects of C++ (C++11, template, lambda, etc, etc). Those are noobs. Look e.g. at V8 to see real, advanced C++ code: http://code.google.com/p/v8/source/browse/trunk/src/ http://code.google.com/p/v8/source/browse/trunk/src/
dchichkov 14y ago
I'd suggest: try to understand the code, the problem and re-factor it to get rid of these extra abstractions and templates. You will either be able to a) get rid of these unnecessary constructs b) understand why these were necessary in the first place.
pjscott 14y ago
In general, if you need to know something but you don't know it yet, a decent strategy would be to learn it. This is usually one of the more practical and pleasant options.
nnq 14y ago
For anyone thinking/saying things like this: "they all use the most modern aspects of C++ (C++11, template, lambda, etc, etc)": Take a swim in the ocean of Lisp (Clojure/Scheme, whatever...) and you'll never feel overwhelmed by things like these again. You'll realize that you're all kinder-garden children and the only difference is that the rest had been playing with shinier toys... THE TRUTH IS BEYOND SYNTAX AND LANGUAGE FEATURES :)

59 points by chinmoy 14y ago

Show you'll put in the time, and I've found pretty much anyone will help you out with areas you are less confident in. Also, I've found the Benjamin Franklin method of "ask someone to do something for you as a form of flattery" works amazingly well to get people to befriend/like you.

unwind 14y ago

This Q&A is part of a weekly series of posts highlighting common questions encountered by technophiles and answered by users at Stack Exchange [...] In other words, this is some content from a different web site, which we're re-publishing here because we can. I don't get it, what would be the idea of this, except for "content is good"? That people who might be interested in questions like this don't read the relevant SE sites, so they "need" Ars to step in and re-publish it? It's weirding me out.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
andrewcooke 14y ago
mods - can we change the url to http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/165918/way-in-over-my-head-dealing-with-better-programmers http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/165918/way-in... ?
joe_the_user 14y ago
Uh, Stack Exchange gets people to post on there by letting its content out on the creative commons license (or whatever equivalent). IE, the posts don't belong to Stack Exchange any more than they belong to Arstechnica. They are doing what the license was intended to let them do. It is simply a matter of which presentation of the material do we like best.
ta12121 14y ago
I used to value Ars because they had actual writers, editors, and original content. This new trend they have of being another content aggregator is disappointing.
dantiberian 14y ago
I really like Ars highlighting these questions, I would often not have seen them if it wasn't for them republishing the answers. They also highlight questions which are relevant to people in the wider tech community that may not be working developers and expose them to some interesting questions. Ars is hardly becoming an aggregation site, IMO they have always had thoughtful, high quality writing with a balanced perspective. One article a week is not a sign of a change in strategy.
lurker14 14y ago
Yeah, why do people read "newspapers" and "encyclopedias" that are full of of rehashed information available as primary sources elsewhere?
benologist 14y ago
The point is SEO and social sites like ... this.

jiggy2011 14y ago

This is actually a problem I wish I had. I'd love to work with an uber programmer who was better than me as long as they had some patience , not too much ego and were happy to help me learn. What I find is more common though is working with very sub-par developers who have no interest in advancing their skills.

rhizome 14y ago
The last time I worked in a shop with "uber programmers," it was more like a CS circle-jerk oriented around who can come up with the more useless abstraction of working code. At any rate, your "as long as" qualification means you're probably looking for a company with older coders.
- andrewcooke 14y ago
  that doesn't really make sense, does it? being a good programmer includes not creating useless abstractions, so what you're actually saying is "when i last worked with poor programmers they weren't very good". and, in response to that: well, duh.
  - rhizome 14y ago
    Well, these poor programmers who weren't very good sure knew a lot about how to make code worse! You're right though, it's a struggle to characterize people who know too much.
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      You could argue they "Knew too much" but equally they could know too little. In other words they know enough about X to understand how to implement X but not enough but not enough about why to implement X.
      - rhizome 14y ago
        You can quibble with what side of the fence I'm describing, but the facts (and my sense of them) remain. Yes, they didn't write good, maintainable code AIUI, and whether that's due to inexperience in writing maintainable code or to shoehorning CS training and metaprogramming into a web developer role is fairly irrelevant to me. As it happens, I think the latter is the bigger problem.

ExpiredLink 14y ago

> Lo and behold, my new job is filled with programmers with 5-10 years experience of pure coding and they all use the most modern aspects of C++ (C++11, template, lambda, etc, etc). Those are noobs. Look e.g. at V8 to see real, advanced C++ code: http://code.google.com/p/v8/source/browse/trunk/src/ http://code.google.com/p/v8/source/browse/trunk/src/

dchichkov 14y ago

I'd suggest: try to understand the code, the problem and re-factor it to get rid of these extra abstractions and templates. You will either be able to a) get rid of these unnecessary constructs b) understand why these were necessary in the first place.

pjscott 14y ago

In general, if you need to know something but you don't know it yet, a decent strategy would be to learn it. This is usually one of the more practical and pleasant options.

nnq 14y ago

For anyone thinking/saying things like this: "they all use the most modern aspects of C++ (C++11, template, lambda, etc, etc)": Take a swim in the ocean of Lisp (Clojure/Scheme, whatever...) and you'll never feel overwhelmed by things like these again. You'll realize that you're all kinder-garden children and the only difference is that the rest had been playing with shinier toys... THE TRUTH IS BEYOND SYNTAX AND LANGUAGE FEATURES :)