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It's a win-win, it's good for Venezuelans and US wants the country to become an ally. People behind the decision probably took both into account. In principle,
by RivieraKid 10mo ago
It's a win-win, it's good for Venezuelans and US wants the country to become an ally. People behind the decision probably took both into account.
In principle, it's morally good to overthrow a dictator in some circumstances. The most obvious example is North Korea - if the US had the ability to transition that country into democracy with little risk of something going wrong, they should obviously do that.
- relaxing 10mo agoThe most obvious example is a fantasy in your mind. The most obvious counter-example is the entire history of unilateral regime change.
- etra0 10mo agoWell, last time the US intervened in my country it was to actually install a dictator that would benefit them. It's too early to say it's a win-win situation.
- baxtr 10mo agoWhich country is that if I may ask?
- WarOnPrivacy 10mo agoChile, if the parent's contact info is indicative. There we backed the overthrow of Allende's government and installed Pinochet.
- olelele 10mo agoWho hired former nazi torturers to kill the left wing.
- WarOnPrivacy 10mo ago> Who hired former nazi torturers to kill the left wing. I can't tell if this is a question or an assertion. If it's a question, Pinochet utilized Nazis to torture people (ex:Colonia Dignidad) and had lots of leftists tortured and disappeared (too many to list here). If it's an assertion, yeah.
- olelele 9mo agoAssertion. Walther Rauff.
- weaksauce 10mo agochile based on the email address in profile
- Hikikomori 10mo agoAbout half of south America.
- phatskat 10mo ago_The School of the Americas has entered the chat._[1] 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2N77mwUI0pDOBOP6gIknkU?si=9iA0HrSETw-TrbJC4C9Lew https://open.spotify.com/episode/2N77mwUI0pDOBOP6gIknkU?si=9...
- Hikikomori 10mo agoAlmost listened to all episodes now. America sure used to have a lot of bastard, still do but used to too.
- phatskat 10mo agoLove a good Mitch reference! And I went through a year or two of binging from the beginning and caught up to present day a year or two ago, but took a break for Jamie Loftus stuff and Knowledge Fight, as well as Some More News and Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff to help balance the bummer lol
- Hikikomori 10mo agoKnowledge fight would be interesting, but always balk at their episode count. Also watch some more news when they have something interesting. Basically everything from the frequent bastards guests. Maybe you'll like the Blowback podcast.
- phatskat 10mo agoI’ll put that on the list, thanks! There is a _lot_ of KF there, I started that from the beginning and I’m close to episode 300…I shudder to think how much of my last two years has been Alex Jones content…but it’s fascinating. And frustrating that his whole shtick seems so transparent yet too complex to get through to people already wrapped up in it
- tecleandor 10mo agoIs it?
- skeptic_ai 10mo agoWouldn’t NK say the same against US? Are we the good guys? Or they are? Or nobody?
- RivieraKid 10mo agoNK is a dictatorship with concentration camps, where a small group of people has 20 million hostages. The US is a democracy. (For the record, I'm not American and I wanted Harris to become the president.)
- pbhjpbhj 10mo agoThe definition of democracy usually includes the rule of law, that no longer exists in USA. Trump declared himself to be dictator, and his handlers are having him act that way. They take no account of USA law, nor of international law, nor ethics of any religious group AFAICT. Also, paying another country to run your concentration camps is no less evil.
- RivieraKid 10mo agoThe US government is not even in the same universe as NK in regard to what they do to their population.
- mint5 10mo agoYet, we’re heading a dangerous path. Ice could easily start rounding up citizens soon… I mean “domestic terrorists” which is how anyone opposing Trump could be labeled soon
- Quothling 10mo ago> It's a win-win Bold statement considering the history. win-win: Panama, Grenada. not win-win: Brazil, El Salvador, Bolivia, Iran, Nicaragua, Chile, Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya.
- aglavine 10mo agoWin-win: France, Germany, Korea...
- WarOnPrivacy 10mo ago> Win-win: France, Germany, Korea These countries don't well match those on the overthrowing-the-dictator list, which now includes Venezuela. For Germany we defeated it's government with a crap-ton of help, after Germany had declared war on us. For France we ousted an invading foreign power (again, with a crap ton of help). For the third we were effectively partitioning the country in prep for the proxy war with the Soviet Union.
- Quothling 10mo agoJapan is also a good example. If the US is going to marshall aid (or the equivalent) Venezuela for the next many decades then I think it'll certainly be a win-win.
- zelphirkalt 10mo agoUnlikely to happen though. More likely they will just engage in resource extraction. The US doesn't have the mindset of the past any longer.
- RivieraKid 10mo agoFair point, it's not certain that this will be a win for Venezuelans. But I think it probably will be. Economically it can't get much worse.
- johnsmith1840 10mo agoI mean this kinda implies that there's a chance it could fail but failure basically is no worse than doing nothing? Most of those examples were failed or problematic countries before and after US intervention. If there's a chance of sucess that's better than doing nothing no?
- coffeefirst 10mo agoThe US has not conducted a successful nation building project since WWII. This is not a coincidence. We don't have the capability. Killing the dictator is the easy part.
- votepaunchy 10mo agoSouth Korea. And Eastern Europe in the 80s.
- senko 10mo agoWhich Eastern European nations did the US build in the 80s?
- pbhjpbhj 10mo agoThis is "we don't let poor people have money because they'll only get fat if they have food to eat" levels of rhetoric. USA military should be taking heed of their own country's laws before pretending to be enforcing laws in other countries in order to further enrich their oligarchy. Sure, remove the NK dictator that USA is partly responsible for being put in to power ... but only with international agreement and a plan for rapid move to have open elections. USA is in no place to do this given the lack of democracy there. Do you really believe the story about freeing Venezuelan's? You're in for a surprise then when USA rapes them for their oil.
- mrtksn 10mo agoHow would you feel if Iran captures Trump, a convicted felon with no respect to the rule of the law, running crypto schemes from the office and with proved connections to a pedophile ring trafficking and planning for a 3rd therm and staying in the office for life? I’m sure a lot of Americans will be celebrating it on the streets. Will that be a win win too?
- RivieraKid 10mo agoI don't think Americans would celebrate on the streets but many would be secretly happy. How would I feel? Depends on what I think would be the consequences for the world.
- mrtksn 10mo agoYou can know the consequences only in retrospect, not when its time to celebrate or not.
- piker 10mo agoIt’s surprising how hard it is for some people to understand this. Yes oil blah blah. A few billion bucks, but the much bigger picture is (at least in this theory) Venezuela gets a democracy and the U.S. gets a stable strategic partner in an important part of its back yard. I’m not evaluating it yet, but there is definitely a bull case for this move on the geopolitical level.
- WarOnPrivacy 10mo ago> Venezuela gets a democracy and the U.S. gets a stable strategic partner in an important part of its back yard. They wishes are, at best, one possible outcome from a long list of possible outcomes.
- mint5 10mo agoIf only it were that easy… Overthrowing a dictator most often gets either a new dictator or years of brutal violence and turmoil Were you in favor of the Iraq war?
- hvb2 10mo ago> The most obvious example is North Korea - if the US had the ability to transition that country into democracy with little risk of something going wrong, they should obviously do that. So let's say they take out Kim jong Un... Now you have a country where every living being from their birth has been trained that US is bad and their leader is like God on earth. Your 'little risk of something going wrong' is wishful thinking or naive
- JumpinJack_Cash 10mo ago> > So let's say they take out Kim jong Un... It will never happen because Kim has nukes. All these regime changes starting from the Afghaninstan, through Saddam, through Gaddafi....now Maduro they are just teaching strongmen to get nukes as the only way to be safe from U.S. (or others) regime change