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I get slightly desperate realizing how people are lead to such naive discussions, even in a place with supposedly instructed, informed persons. Maduro may be a
by dubeux 9mo ago
I get slightly desperate realizing how people are lead to such naive discussions, even in a place with supposedly instructed, informed persons.
Maduro may be a dictator, a murderer, whatever. This has absolutely no relation with the reasons for US invading, bombing and killing Venezuelans, or whichever country. For about a century, US has been doing it all over the world, not because they wanna live in a better, peaceful world - quite the opposite, they've been doing it for supporting coups and stablishing dictatorships that favour their supremacy, their role as the most powerful country in the world.
Do you really, really believe Mr. Donald is very concerned about the lives of poor venezuelans? Or, just to stay in the region, he supports El Salvador dictator because he's a very nice fellow?
- seizethecheese 9mo agoIronic comment. El Salvador’s president has extremely high approval ratings and was definitely elected democratically. The US hasn’t ousted a democratically elected government since the end of the Cold War (as far as I know).
- whatwhaaaaat 9mo agoUh what? I’m all about American hegemony but let’s not stupid. Mossadegh Arbenz Allende Goulart Lumunba And Maduro was elected as well though you can go on with it being corrupt if you want. These are just the ones we directly overthrew who were elected. There are 20 more or so we’ve done so indirectly.
- seizethecheese 9mo agoYou missed the part of my comment that said “since the Cold War”. All of your examples are during the Cold War, of course. (Other than Maduro, and I don’t think most people believe he was democratically elected.)
- whatwhaaaaat 9mo agoUh you had ww2 there first no?
- seizethecheese 9mo agoNope, you can confirm you misread
- rixed 9mo agoCould it be because democratically elected governments are becoming a thing of the past?
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- conradojordan 9mo agoHN comments is a heavily biased and propagandized place. The most moderate opinion you'll find here will be something like "actually Venezuelans are happy that they are being bombed by the US!"
- zahlman 9mo ago> The most moderate opinion you'll find here will be something like The large majority of what I'm seeing is from the other side of the aisle.
- mordnis 9mo agoYeah, what a weird comment...
- conradojordan 9mo agoLiterally the top comment of the post right now is saying that a lot of Venezuelans are happy and that Maduro is bad
- DarkNova6 9mo agoTrump just literally announced that oil companies are coming to get the Oil of Venezuela. Sorry, everything else was naive to believe.
- GaryBluto 9mo agoHave you considered that it might not be HN being propagandized but instead all other social medias from which you likely use to construct your worldview? It would be an incredible waste of time to try and sway opinion here on global politics.
- conradojordan 9mo agoOut of all the sources I'm checking with different political biases this is one of the few places that people are so desperately trying to frame a country bombing another country to steal their oil as something good
- copeseethehard 9mo ago[flagged]
- nospice 9mo agoI don't understand what you're saying here. First, yep, countries act in self-interest. There's no war in the history of the planet that was started out of the kindness of one's heart. That doesn't mean that the outcome of a self-interested intervention can't be just or good for the country in the long haul. I don't know how this one will pan out, but I suspect that the interests of the US and of the citizens of Venezuela are aligned much more closely than, say, in the Middle East. Second, you're portraying US as a malicious actor operating in a vacuum. The reality is that there's a fierce competition between superpowers to broaden their spheres of influence and ultimately control the world. There's no future in which a relatively small, resource-rich, and politically dysfunctional country is left to its own devices. The choice is between Russia, China, and the US. Venezuela was more or less one of the Russian client states, and that status quo was maintained through undemocratic means, including mass murder of political opponents using the military gear provided by RU. Now, the US is going to try its hand, probably in a far less brutal way.
- tecleandor 9mo agoSo, the taken is, as China and Russia are very evil, it's OK if the US is evil (but just a bit less than the other actors). I though they (the US?) were aiming to be better. Like, the "great" in MAGA wasn't like in "great empire". /s
- anonymars 9mo agoI believe the argument is, this can simultaneously be a bad thing yet the best achievable outcome within the current reality. In other words, the point is that the hypothetical good choice is not actually on the menu. I will note a similarity to the US political situation with respect to people who, rather than choose the lesser of two evils, opt not to vote entirely. Nevertheless, that doesn't mean humanity shouldn't strive for better.
- megous 9mo agoAll this guessing is based on historical examples of results of US involvement in Americas, I presume?
- RivieraKid 9mo agoIt's a win-win, it's good for Venezuelans and US wants the country to become an ally. People behind the decision probably took both into account. In principle, it's morally good to overthrow a dictator in some circumstances. The most obvious example is North Korea - if the US had the ability to transition that country into democracy with little risk of something going wrong, they should obviously do that.
- relaxing 9mo agoThe most obvious example is a fantasy in your mind. The most obvious counter-example is the entire history of unilateral regime change.
- etra0 9mo agoWell, last time the US intervened in my country it was to actually install a dictator that would benefit them. It's too early to say it's a win-win situation.
- baxtr 9mo agoWhich country is that if I may ask?
- WarOnPrivacy 9mo agoChile, if the parent's contact info is indicative. There we backed the overthrow of Allende's government and installed Pinochet.
- olelele 9mo agoWho hired former nazi torturers to kill the left wing.
- WarOnPrivacy 9mo ago> Who hired former nazi torturers to kill the left wing. I can't tell if this is a question or an assertion. If it's a question, Pinochet utilized Nazis to torture people (ex:Colonia Dignidad) and had lots of leftists tortured and disappeared (too many to list here). If it's an assertion, yeah.
- DarkNova6 9mo ago"Trump announced US oil companies will rebuild Venezuelan oil industry Oh would you look at that Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZaKSfiOzCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZaKSfiOzCw
- IncreasePosts 9mo agoThe US could be acting in their own interest and their actions could benefit Venezuelans at the same time. Venezuela has insane amounts of oil and could be the Saudi Arabia of south America. Why aren't they? Why are there food shortages there? Where's all the oil revenue going? Why isn't there more oil revenue?
- Hikikomori 9mo agoWell it could have something to do with the US previous involvement in Venezuela dating back over 100 years.
- nckmi 9mo agoA major factor is that Venezuela's oil is mostly heavier crude, which is denser and more viscous. This makes it costlier and more difficult to extract and refine, and usually sells for a lower price than lighter crude. There's also rampant mismanagement, poor infrastructure, and sanctions affecting the output and outcomes. See also: "resource curse"
- arcbyte 9mo agoBased on where I was born and my background, I should not know as much as I do about Venezuela. Improbably, life led me to develop close ties to some Venezuelans, and with them as a window, I've learned a lot about that country. In this case, the people of Venezuela are desperate to get rid of their socialist government. It has, predictably and inevitably, led them directly to poverty, starvation, and violent repression. I have a lot of reservations about the way in which Trump is operating and in this case, the legality of every aspect of how he is doing this operation in Venezuela. Despite all those reservations, this is a rare situation where this action benefits everyone and the world.
- xnx 9mo agoSometimes bad people do the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, but there is some good aspect to it.