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I think people are overindexed on the US's failures to turn Islamic theocracies into democracies. The people in Venezuela want democracy. It's a fundamentally d
by vmg12 10mo ago
I think people are overindexed on the US's failures to turn Islamic theocracies into democracies. The people in Venezuela want democracy. It's a fundamentally different situation.
- halJordan 10mo agoI don't know if you remember that Hugo Chavez was voted into power, had a legitimate mandate to dismantle the democracy that elevated him, and then his voters defended him against a violent coup to restore that democracy.
- tim333 10mo ago"had a legitimate mandate to dismantle the democracy"... citation needed.
- rib3ye 10mo agoI wonder if you would defend Trump for the same actions, and also don’t forget ‘dismantling free press’ in Hugo’s list of accomplishments.
- jjk166 10mo agoI don't support Trump, but I would not support a foreign power unilaterally abducting him.
- doom2 10mo agoWhat kind of democracy do Venezuelans want and will it be the same kind of democracy Trump wants to install? What if they want a democracy that continues to be friendly towards Cuba and wary of the US? Will Trump accept that?
- vmg12 10mo agoIf your hypothetical plays out I'll say you were right.
- ronbenton 10mo agoDetermining the goodness of a blatantly illegal action by its ultimate success is a very Machiavellian view. Why have laws if all that matters is the final result?
- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- hearsathought 10mo ago> The people in Venezuela want democracy. Venezuela had a democracy for decades. It's the US that has been trying to destroy it for decades because the venezuelans voted for the wrong guy. It's funny how we forgot that the US also tried to remove the previous elected leader of venezuela.
- brazukadev 10mo agoLast year the people decided to vote for an alternative and the dictator decided to stay in power.
- hearsathought 10mo ago[flagged]
- zdragnar 10mo agoYou'd think Machado winning the Nobel peace prize would be enough for people to not question the popularity of Maduro, but here we are, random keyboard warriors defending dictators nonstop.
- thrance 10mo agoReminder that Kissinger won the Nobel Prize in his time. Winning the Nobel Prize means you align with US geopolitical interests, nothing more.
- hearsathought 10mo ago> You'd think Machado winning the Nobel peace prize would be enough for people to not question the popularity of Maduro You mean the woman advocating for the US to invade venezuela got the nobel prize? How shocking. It's almost as if the nobel prize is a political tool. > but here we are, random keyboard warriors defending dictators nonstop. "dictator". Sure. Everyone is a dictator and authoritarian.
- cirwyz 10mo ago
- squibonpig 10mo ago"the common people sew dragon banners and pray for your return"
- vmg12 10mo agoI can talk to Venezuelans and see videos of them celebrating in the streets.
- testing22321 10mo agoFor your own sake I hope you realize you are being shown those videos specifically to manipulate your opinion on this.
- vmg12 10mo agoI can talk to them. I can talk to the Venezuelan refugees, who came here not because they are "political refugees" like some claim but because there was a famine in Venezuela.
- lbrito 10mo agoNone of that implies that what comes next will be any better, and to think otherwise is simply being ignorant of history.
- forinti 10mo agoI don't think the US has any interest in a democratic and stable middle east. It's much easier and cheaper to extract resources from a balkanized region.
- stusmall 10mo ago> The people in Venezuela want democracy. It's a fundamentally different situation. "We will, in fact, be greeted as liberators" - Dick Cheney (but I'm sure it'll work out this time) There is a whole lot of directions this can go after we arrest the dictator, but a liberal democracy magically immediately popping isn't on my list. There might be one in the future but there will be a lot of chaos and violence between now and then.
- vmg12 10mo agoWhat happened in Europe after WW2? Dick Cheney didn't invent the idea of America liberating a country and being greeted as liberators, it had happened before, specifically in countries that had a history of liberal democracy. For some reason he thought it would apply to Islamic theocracies and it clearly didn't. Pattern matching Venezuela against Iraq or Afghanistan is an obvious mistake.
- stusmall 10mo agoWe aren't occupying Venezuela and rooting out everyone in the current regime and putting them on trial. We just arrested a handful of people leaving the rest of the government intact. It playing out like WW2 doesn't make sense
- anonymousab 10mo agoTrump has today, explicitly said that the US administration - specifically his administration - will run Venezuela, with boots on the ground, for as long as is necessary.
- stusmall 10mo agoI was listening to the press conference and almost went back to edit my comment with a note about it. Honestly, coming out of that I have no idea if what is his saying is reality. As things stand and what we know, it doesn't make sense. We don't know about more troops currently on the ground. He said the VP has agreed to assist, but she is publicly saying very different things. I hate we are in a place as a country where we can't believe basic things about important topics our president says.
- lotsofpulp 10mo agoThe funny part of that narrative is the US government currently being led by people who have been trying to tear down the concept of democracy in the US. Maybe once Venezuela has their democracy back, they can help out the people in the US?
- sigwinch 10mo agoWhat’s even funnier is that, in some kind of trial, Maduro should enjoy Presidential Immunity.
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- deleted 10mo ago[deleted]
- croes 10mo agoAnd the US want oil and other resources. So Venezuela has to vote correctly otherwise it will get "freed" again
- hollerith 10mo agoWhy would Washington try to get oil from Venezuela when its domestic oil industry produces all the oil the US needs (and if production were to decrease, the US economy could easily make up the shortfall by buying oil from Canada)?
- croes 10mo agoTo hinder China, so sell it themselves, to prevent competition Don’t forget I mentioned other resources too. Venezuela has more than oil.
- hollerith 10mo agoCan you guess what resource the US is trying to procure by this military action? I think you are trying to force an incorrect simplistic narrative on the situation. Obtaining natural resources is not an important motivation for US military action with the possible exception of US intervention in the Persian Gulf during the Cold War (and even there I see no evidence that the US was trying to get out of paying the going international rate for the oil as opposed to merely ensuring that willing sellers in the Gulf could continue to transport their oil over the ocean). Venezuela's cooperation with Moscow and Beijing is a much more likely motivation, i.e., US national security.
- trymas 10mo ago> Venezuela's cooperation with Moscow and Beijing is a much more likely motivation, i.e., US national security. If that’s the case why pootin got a red carpet in Alaska instead of orange jumpsuit? Why if ruzzia is such a “threat to national security”, current government of “no new wars” doesn’t help Ukraine? Don’t forget that eliminating (or reducing its influence to nothing) ruzzia - would hurt China immensely. Two birds with one stone and all… also with a benefit of a true legitimacy of helping Ukraine and destroying ruzzian totalitarianism.
- testing22321 10mo ago> The people in Venezuela want democracy. Let’s assume for a second this is true, and the US is genuinely helping by removing a dictator. Why Venezuela? Why not one of the other dozens of countries in the world this is the case? Hint: oil.
- xtracto 10mo agoThe problem US has always had with Latin America is that it's population likes a Socialist flavour of Democracy. That doesn't rub well to the ruthless capitalist ideals of America. That's the reason why the US has destabilized the region again and again.
- mkoubaa 10mo agoBoy I wish I was still this naive