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“The concern about whether or not it's right or wrong for the US to go and arrest Maduro depends largely on how one views the recent Venezuelan election results

by padjo 9mo ago

“The concern about whether or not it's right or wrong for the US to go and arrest Maduro depends largely on how one views the recent Venezuelan election results” Again, no it doesn’t. It’s the unilateral extraterritorial interventionism that’s the problem. I have no time for Maduro or his administration. And if you think this intervention is about protecting democracy I have a bridge to sell you.

monerozcash 9mo ago
It's only unilateral if you reject the electoral fraud claims. >And if you think this intervention is about protecting democracy I have a bridge to sell you. No, I certainly don't think that. I'd suspect it's mostly about personal grievances and Trumps desire to make a show. But still I think it makes more sense to focus on the best-case justifications than trying to guess at the real reasons behind why this administration does what it does.
- padjo 9mo ago
  By that definition no foreign intervention could ever be unilateral because you can always find some local group to support you. By that logic the English conquest of Ireland was locally supported because the Earl of Desmond supported them. The actual motivations matter because they dictate the outcome. In this case the actual motivations have been stated publicly by Trump a few years ago, they want the oil back. They will happily support whoever ends up in power so long as they hand back the oil rights.
  - monerozcash 9mo ago
    I think you're stretching a bit, I'm simply proposing they have a pretty good case here because much of the world openly agrees with the US claim that Maduro did not actually win the previous elections. >In this case the actual motivations have been stated publicly by Trump a few years ago, they want the oil back. They will happily support whoever ends up in power so long as they hand back the oil rights. That's obviously not credible, you can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement. There's simply nobody else with the capabilities to do so. Venezuelan oil is particularly difficult to get out of the ground, it's tremendously difficult to extract profitably.
    - FpUser 9mo ago
      >"That's obviously not credible, you can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement. There's simply nobody else with the capabilities to do so. Venezuelan oil is particularly difficult to get out of the ground, it's tremendously difficult to extract profitably" I see that you do not manage your finances properly. Lemme take over. Besides I do not believe this "nobody else" BS. If there is a need and money to be made they will find someone with the tech or deep enough pockets to develop it.
      - monerozcash 9mo ago
        > If there is a need and money to be made they will find someone with the tech or deep enough pockets to develop it There's no need and there's likely to be no money to be made. The extraction costs will probably be closer to $60 per barrel, which is more than you can sell it for.
        FpUser 9mo ago
        >"There's no need and there's likely to be no money to be made" Not your or mine problem. It is up to Venezuela to figure it out either way, at least in a reasonable world it should be.
        monerozcash 9mo ago
        No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that it doesn't make economic sense for US to go after Venezuelan oil.
        FpUser 9mo ago
        >"making the point that it doesn't make economic sense" Baloney, you said this: >"You can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement" Pretty sure given enough efforts could play for others as well.
        9mo ago

by padjo 9mo ago

monerozcash 9mo ago

It's only unilateral if you reject the electoral fraud claims. >And if you think this intervention is about protecting democracy I have a bridge to sell you. No, I certainly don't think that. I'd suspect it's mostly about personal grievances and Trumps desire to make a show. But still I think it makes more sense to focus on the best-case justifications than trying to guess at the real reasons behind why this administration does what it does.

padjo 9mo ago
By that definition no foreign intervention could ever be unilateral because you can always find some local group to support you. By that logic the English conquest of Ireland was locally supported because the Earl of Desmond supported them. The actual motivations matter because they dictate the outcome. In this case the actual motivations have been stated publicly by Trump a few years ago, they want the oil back. They will happily support whoever ends up in power so long as they hand back the oil rights.
- monerozcash 9mo ago
  I think you're stretching a bit, I'm simply proposing they have a pretty good case here because much of the world openly agrees with the US claim that Maduro did not actually win the previous elections. >In this case the actual motivations have been stated publicly by Trump a few years ago, they want the oil back. They will happily support whoever ends up in power so long as they hand back the oil rights. That's obviously not credible, you can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement. There's simply nobody else with the capabilities to do so. Venezuelan oil is particularly difficult to get out of the ground, it's tremendously difficult to extract profitably.
  - FpUser 9mo ago
    >"That's obviously not credible, you can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement. There's simply nobody else with the capabilities to do so. Venezuelan oil is particularly difficult to get out of the ground, it's tremendously difficult to extract profitably" I see that you do not manage your finances properly. Lemme take over. Besides I do not believe this "nobody else" BS. If there is a need and money to be made they will find someone with the tech or deep enough pockets to develop it.
    - monerozcash 9mo ago
      > If there is a need and money to be made they will find someone with the tech or deep enough pockets to develop it There's no need and there's likely to be no money to be made. The extraction costs will probably be closer to $60 per barrel, which is more than you can sell it for.
      - FpUser 9mo ago
        >"There's no need and there's likely to be no money to be made" Not your or mine problem. It is up to Venezuela to figure it out either way, at least in a reasonable world it should be.
        monerozcash 9mo ago
        No doubt, but I'm simply making the point that it doesn't make economic sense for US to go after Venezuelan oil.
        FpUser 9mo ago
        >"making the point that it doesn't make economic sense" Baloney, you said this: >"You can't profitably extract Venezuelan crude without US involvement" Pretty sure given enough efforts could play for others as well.
        9mo ago