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Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my

Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.

daveungerer 9mo ago
> Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?
- electriclove 9mo ago
  My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
  - jamiek88 9mo ago
    You don’t own your children.
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
      - jamiek88 9mo ago
        The way you talk about your children like they are livestock is gross.
NikolaNovak 9mo ago
I don't want to assume, so I'll ask if you're willing to share - are you making the implicit assumption that your kids are and/or will be monogamous, and is that assumption a key factor in your decision on their vaccinations?
- electriclove 9mo ago
  The CDC recommendation to get it at 11 or 12 does not make sense to me. I know they aren’t having sex - and I know that some kids do. We will discuss, together, the pros/cons as they get older to see if it makes sense. As they get older, they’ll make these decisions themselves. Until then, I’m weighing the pros/cons and in our case, it doesn’t seem they are at risk in the near future.
  - cwillu 9mo ago
    You know “sexual contact” is not the same thing as sexual intercourse, right?
    - electriclove 9mo ago
      Sure. Do you assume all kids are having sexual contact and need to be vaccinated for this at a young age?
  - zerocrates 9mo ago
    The early recommendation age just falls out of the data that shows the vaccine is substantially more effective if you haven't been infected yet, together with the fact that it's a multi-dose vaccine where the second dose comes months later, and realistically for many that's going to mean a year or more before completing the series. I think there's truth to the idea that the specific 11-12 range is somewhat arbitrary: as much as anything it's that because there was a preexisting "slot" in the vaccine schedule at 11-12. The American Academy of Pediatrics differs from the CDC's panel on this... but on the earlier side: they would start the recommendation at age 9. I think to a significant degree the thinking there is that if you go earlier the messaging and reaction is more "your child will probably eventually have sex and this is an effective time to give the vaccine" and less "your child will be having sex like, tomorrow."
LorenPechtel 9mo ago
And herein lies the problem--you are trying to decree their sexuality. Not your choice.
- electriclove 9mo ago
  Are you a parent? We might just be raised differently. And I can accept that you might raise your kids differently.
  - toomuchtodo 9mo ago
    I am a parent who vaccinated my daughter at 9 for HPV, and my son will be vaccinated as soon as he’s old enough, without delay or hesitation. It is my opinion you are doing a disservice to your children with a suboptimal mental model, potentially driven by emotion instead of data. Your children will have sexual contact with another human eventually as they grow into adults, and there is very low risk with an HPV vaccine. There is, in my opinion, no reason not to vaccinate as soon as possible (considering the material reduction in future cancer risk, and that there is no cure once infected, only prevention via vaccination). You might have feelings, as many have strong feelings, but they won’t matter once your kids are 18 and you no longer control them. Google the stats on parental estrangement. Try to do better, you are a guardian of your children, not an owner, and your values will potentially not be their values. I don’t care with who or when my children have sexual experiences with once they are old enough to consent, what matters is they are respected, as well as protected from harm and poor health outcomes from these experiences they will certainly have eventually during their lifetimes. If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. So, protect them from what you can, which in this case is HPV.
    - apparent 9mo ago
      > Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage. If you give your kid a vaccine that is primarily meant for people who do not do this, you are letting your kid know that you don't really have faith in them. That sends a strong message that some people do not want to send. As GP said, you're free to raise your kids different, and if you don't place value on reserving sex for marriage, it would make sense that you would do differently.

Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents.

daveungerer 9mo ago

> Same, what is the risk/reward for someone who is and plans to be monogamous. Young or old. Cost not a concern. Give me the info and let me decide for myself, my kids, my parents. Did I read this correctly? You are going to decide for your children based on their plans to be monogamous? And you’re also going to decide for your parents? I can only assume you’re in the unfortunate situation where your parents are no longer capable of making decisions?

electriclove 9mo ago
My wife and I are definitely going to decide for my kids while they are under 18. Not you, not the state If there is a benefit for my gen and my parents, then why wouldn’t we consider it?
- jamiek88 9mo ago
  You don’t own your children.
  - electriclove 9mo ago
    You definitely don't. And you have absolutely no impact on how I raise my kids.
    - jamiek88 9mo ago
      The way you talk about your children like they are livestock is gross.

NikolaNovak 9mo ago

I don't want to assume, so I'll ask if you're willing to share - are you making the implicit assumption that your kids are and/or will be monogamous, and is that assumption a key factor in your decision on their vaccinations?

electriclove 9mo ago
The CDC recommendation to get it at 11 or 12 does not make sense to me. I know they aren’t having sex - and I know that some kids do. We will discuss, together, the pros/cons as they get older to see if it makes sense. As they get older, they’ll make these decisions themselves. Until then, I’m weighing the pros/cons and in our case, it doesn’t seem they are at risk in the near future.
- cwillu 9mo ago
  You know “sexual contact” is not the same thing as sexual intercourse, right?
  - electriclove 9mo ago
    Sure. Do you assume all kids are having sexual contact and need to be vaccinated for this at a young age?
- zerocrates 9mo ago
  The early recommendation age just falls out of the data that shows the vaccine is substantially more effective if you haven't been infected yet, together with the fact that it's a multi-dose vaccine where the second dose comes months later, and realistically for many that's going to mean a year or more before completing the series. I think there's truth to the idea that the specific 11-12 range is somewhat arbitrary: as much as anything it's that because there was a preexisting "slot" in the vaccine schedule at 11-12. The American Academy of Pediatrics differs from the CDC's panel on this... but on the earlier side: they would start the recommendation at age 9. I think to a significant degree the thinking there is that if you go earlier the messaging and reaction is more "your child will probably eventually have sex and this is an effective time to give the vaccine" and less "your child will be having sex like, tomorrow."

LorenPechtel 9mo ago

And herein lies the problem--you are trying to decree their sexuality. Not your choice.

electriclove 9mo ago
Are you a parent? We might just be raised differently. And I can accept that you might raise your kids differently.
- toomuchtodo 9mo ago
  I am a parent who vaccinated my daughter at 9 for HPV, and my son will be vaccinated as soon as he’s old enough, without delay or hesitation. It is my opinion you are doing a disservice to your children with a suboptimal mental model, potentially driven by emotion instead of data. Your children will have sexual contact with another human eventually as they grow into adults, and there is very low risk with an HPV vaccine. There is, in my opinion, no reason not to vaccinate as soon as possible (considering the material reduction in future cancer risk, and that there is no cure once infected, only prevention via vaccination). You might have feelings, as many have strong feelings, but they won’t matter once your kids are 18 and you no longer control them. Google the stats on parental estrangement. Try to do better, you are a guardian of your children, not an owner, and your values will potentially not be their values. I don’t care with who or when my children have sexual experiences with once they are old enough to consent, what matters is they are respected, as well as protected from harm and poor health outcomes from these experiences they will certainly have eventually during their lifetimes. If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. So, protect them from what you can, which in this case is HPV.
  - apparent 9mo ago
    > Try to do better Pretty sure this line never convinced anyone of anything. We all want to do "better" but have different definitions of what that constitutes. > If you don’t think your kids are going to have sex when they’re older, or think you can control it, you are lying to yourself. I don't think anyone thinks this. Some people do hope and expect their children not to have sex outside of a monogamous marriage. If you give your kid a vaccine that is primarily meant for people who do not do this, you are letting your kid know that you don't really have faith in them. That sends a strong message that some people do not want to send. As GP said, you're free to raise your kids different, and if you don't place value on reserving sex for marriage, it would make sense that you would do differently.