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Because I want a device for my kids to play games. Not communicate. Not buy stuff. Just play (local) games. Stuff like online communications will come at a

by BeetleB 10mo ago

Because I want a device for my kids to play games. Not communicate. Not buy stuff. Just play (local) games. Stuff like online communications will come at a later age. Absolutely no reason to start explaining that to a 5 year old. And absolutely no reason to have all 3 bundled in one. > Take an earnest interest in your child's activities, both online and offline. Guide them how to behave in strange, even weird and scary situations with strangers. Be the reliable adult in their life to whom they can tell when they encounter something unpleasant, online or offline. Under the guidance of a parent your children will be safer than behind any amount of protective layers that these so called child-safety apps provide, and they will also know how to help their friends to navigate risk and avoid danger. Everything you just said is true for gun ownership as well!

elros 10mo ago
On a certain level, it’s also a question of different parenting philosophy. > Stuff like online communications will come at a later age. Absolutely no reason to start explaining that to a 5 year old. I agree, but I also see absolutely no reason why 5 years old children would have access to a gaming device. Pretty much any other activity I can imagine is better for them.
- BeetleB 10mo ago
  > I agree, but I also see absolutely no reason why 5 years old children would have access to a gaming device. Pretty much any other activity I can imagine is better for them. I suggest expanding your imagination skills. There are definitely worse activities, like watching TV. And there's physical limit to how much physical activity one can be doing. There's definitely a point of diminishing returns there. And the skills one can develop with carefully curated games are hard to reproduce in any entertaining manner. I mean, sure, I could have him do math but it's a lot more boring. Playing games is definitely an "and", not an "exclusive or" proposition. I was given access to computer games at that age and I'm definitely appreciative for it. I only realized the value when I was well into my 30s.
  - soperj 10mo ago
    > And there's physical limit to how much physical activity one can be doing Do you hang out with many 5 year olds? They're made of energy. > I could have him do math but it's a lot more boring I did Math all the time with my 5 year old and he loved it, but then I also love math, and it's easy to make fun.
    - BeetleB 10mo ago
      Fair points, but understand that this is a multidimensional issue, with each dimension being a continuum. I know plenty of people using the exact same arguments to argue that kids should not waste time with Lego. There are better physical activities.
      - soperj 10mo ago
        people are definitely crazy.
        BeetleB 10mo ago
        It's no crazier than saying the same things for video games. :-)
    - aidenn0 10mo ago
      > I did Math all the time with my 5 year old and he loved it, but then I also love math, and it's easy to make fun. I have 4 kids; two of them also found math fun at age 5, the other two did not. I do not believe my ability to make math fun differed significantly between the attempts.
  - oblio 10mo ago
    The could play physical games such as board games or card games or... Computer games aren't really needed for anything special at 5 years old. Digital skills can be developed much later and they can be developed really fast, plus if the parents are very computer literate, their kids will be waaay ahead of the average kid in the world, so this isn't a real concern.
- krupan 10mo ago
  We got an Atari computer when I was 5. I was allowed to play Pac-Man and Donkey Kong for as long as I wanted. Turns out, those games were not designed by the same people who make slot machines, and they got frustrating pretty quickly and I chose to go do other things. This scenario not even being an option today is what most people are complaining about here.
squibonpig 10mo ago
Gun ownership isn't a terrible example honestly. I would have been probably 8 or so when I was allowed to traipse around in the woods near my dad's house with a BB gun, following extensive safety teaching of course. We would go out in the yard and shoot a shotgun and a rifle around that same age. People are probably not careful enough with guns right now in America given the stats, but it's not at all unreasonable in a rural context for a relatively young kid to be trusted with use of a firearm, even for short unsupervised periods. The real thing that a parent has to do (beyond still waiting until an appropriate age) is to extensively drill in the safety habits and proper use and know their kid well enough to determine whether they're ready for that responsibility.
- BeetleB 10mo ago
  Sure, but do you understand that it's perfectly reasonable to be able to buy a toy gun and not have to explain gun safety to them? Or would you recommend that all toy guns have the ability to be dangerous and all parents should train them because of the prevalence of guns in society?
  - sojsurf 10mo ago
    A few thoughts: - Perhaps we have different ideas of the appropriate age to wean kids off of toys and teach them to use real (and sometimes dangerous) things. Today's discussion is about guns, but the same could be said for boats, motorcycles, woodworking equipment, etc. I would like my children to be well rounded and well equipped when they become adults. However, I acknowledge that this may not be normal anymore: Many families seem to be content with their teenagers playing games all day long (ironically, games with guns!) - It sounds like you have the gun in a "toy" category. For my kids, guns are absolutely not in the toy category. They are tools, used for hunting and protection, and access to these tools comes with guard rails and significant responsibility. I would rather my kids never get used to guns as toys. - This is bigger than just personal decisions: In my state, teenagers used to be allowed to work on construction sites in the summers. By the time they graduated, many of these guys had real skills they could support their family with. In our rush to protect kids, this kind of work is no longer taught in classes or available as summer work for young people. We have made it increasingly hard for young people to "grow up"!
chrismatheson 10mo ago
90's Consoles are available on eBay or most video games shops :) Turns out what was fun for you at age 5 will be fun for your kids at age 5. Just the same as The Cat In The Hat is still a beloved book. I personally have found this to be the absolute winner of a solution.

by BeetleB 10mo ago

elros 10mo ago

On a certain level, it’s also a question of different parenting philosophy. > Stuff like online communications will come at a later age. Absolutely no reason to start explaining that to a 5 year old. I agree, but I also see absolutely no reason why 5 years old children would have access to a gaming device. Pretty much any other activity I can imagine is better for them.

BeetleB 10mo ago
> I agree, but I also see absolutely no reason why 5 years old children would have access to a gaming device. Pretty much any other activity I can imagine is better for them. I suggest expanding your imagination skills. There are definitely worse activities, like watching TV. And there's physical limit to how much physical activity one can be doing. There's definitely a point of diminishing returns there. And the skills one can develop with carefully curated games are hard to reproduce in any entertaining manner. I mean, sure, I could have him do math but it's a lot more boring. Playing games is definitely an "and", not an "exclusive or" proposition. I was given access to computer games at that age and I'm definitely appreciative for it. I only realized the value when I was well into my 30s.
- soperj 10mo ago
  > And there's physical limit to how much physical activity one can be doing Do you hang out with many 5 year olds? They're made of energy. > I could have him do math but it's a lot more boring I did Math all the time with my 5 year old and he loved it, but then I also love math, and it's easy to make fun.
  - BeetleB 10mo ago
    Fair points, but understand that this is a multidimensional issue, with each dimension being a continuum. I know plenty of people using the exact same arguments to argue that kids should not waste time with Lego. There are better physical activities.
    - soperj 10mo ago
      people are definitely crazy.
      - BeetleB 10mo ago
        It's no crazier than saying the same things for video games. :-)
  - aidenn0 10mo ago
    > I did Math all the time with my 5 year old and he loved it, but then I also love math, and it's easy to make fun. I have 4 kids; two of them also found math fun at age 5, the other two did not. I do not believe my ability to make math fun differed significantly between the attempts.
- oblio 10mo ago
  The could play physical games such as board games or card games or... Computer games aren't really needed for anything special at 5 years old. Digital skills can be developed much later and they can be developed really fast, plus if the parents are very computer literate, their kids will be waaay ahead of the average kid in the world, so this isn't a real concern.
krupan 10mo ago
We got an Atari computer when I was 5. I was allowed to play Pac-Man and Donkey Kong for as long as I wanted. Turns out, those games were not designed by the same people who make slot machines, and they got frustrating pretty quickly and I chose to go do other things. This scenario not even being an option today is what most people are complaining about here.

squibonpig 10mo ago

Gun ownership isn't a terrible example honestly. I would have been probably 8 or so when I was allowed to traipse around in the woods near my dad's house with a BB gun, following extensive safety teaching of course. We would go out in the yard and shoot a shotgun and a rifle around that same age. People are probably not careful enough with guns right now in America given the stats, but it's not at all unreasonable in a rural context for a relatively young kid to be trusted with use of a firearm, even for short unsupervised periods. The real thing that a parent has to do (beyond still waiting until an appropriate age) is to extensively drill in the safety habits and proper use and know their kid well enough to determine whether they're ready for that responsibility.

BeetleB 10mo ago
Sure, but do you understand that it's perfectly reasonable to be able to buy a toy gun and not have to explain gun safety to them? Or would you recommend that all toy guns have the ability to be dangerous and all parents should train them because of the prevalence of guns in society?
- sojsurf 10mo ago
  A few thoughts: - Perhaps we have different ideas of the appropriate age to wean kids off of toys and teach them to use real (and sometimes dangerous) things. Today's discussion is about guns, but the same could be said for boats, motorcycles, woodworking equipment, etc. I would like my children to be well rounded and well equipped when they become adults. However, I acknowledge that this may not be normal anymore: Many families seem to be content with their teenagers playing games all day long (ironically, games with guns!) - It sounds like you have the gun in a "toy" category. For my kids, guns are absolutely not in the toy category. They are tools, used for hunting and protection, and access to these tools comes with guard rails and significant responsibility. I would rather my kids never get used to guns as toys. - This is bigger than just personal decisions: In my state, teenagers used to be allowed to work on construction sites in the summers. By the time they graduated, many of these guys had real skills they could support their family with. In our rush to protect kids, this kind of work is no longer taught in classes or available as summer work for young people. We have made it increasingly hard for young people to "grow up"!

chrismatheson 10mo ago

90's Consoles are available on eBay or most video games shops :) Turns out what was fun for you at age 5 will be fun for your kids at age 5. Just the same as The Cat In The Hat is still a beloved book. I personally have found this to be the absolute winner of a solution.