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I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome

I don’t see that as a threat honestly. safari being the default app pretty much guarantees its place unless google comes up with a killer feature for iOS chrome. And they are unlikely to make that push considering apple demands the app to be distributed only in Japan. Besides, the mobile web is becoming more and more of a niche platform, since the web is becoming centralised as time passes and most main sites redirect to their own apps. And that’s without considering direct web search being replaced by AI search,which google seems convinced is the way forward.

MBCook 10mo ago
It was the default on the Mac and it’s nowhere near the most popular there. Google pushes Chrome HARD.
- cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
  Yep. I've even been seeing Chrome TV ads lately (on Amazon Prime Video). They're marketing it pretty hard despite being dominant. Also, it's wise to not underestimate the power of developers ceasing to test against non-Blink browsers and taking a page from their IE-era past selves with "Best Viewed in Chrome" and "Browser outdated! Download Chrome" badges. There are few user motivators stronger than things not working.
- ribosometronome 10mo ago
  Similarly, Edge is the default on Windows. Chrome has 75% of the market share.
- ndiddy 10mo ago
  Yeah it's fun how Google displays a full-page ad for Chrome every few times I do a Google search on iOS Safari that I have to dismiss before seeing the results.
- benoau 10mo ago
  Yeah but the solution to that is to be good at breaking monopolies, not allowing one to stop another.
  - kelthuzad 10mo ago
    [flagged]
  - MBCook 10mo ago
    That’s what should have happened long ago. As far as I can see there are only two possibilities on any kind of near term: Apple can lock Google and everyone else out, or Google can take over the web fully. Those appear to be our only choices right now. I don’t like either one. But I know which one I don’t like more.
    - kelthuzad 10mo ago
      [flagged]
      - MBCook 10mo ago
        We are helpless now in the near term. It’s not trolling. What can we do in the next two years (let’s say) that would accomplish both letting other browsers on iOS and preventing Chrome from taking over everywhere? I don’t know of another option. As far as I can see, that’s it. Longer term yeah we should break up Google. If they didn’t own Chrome that would fix the problem. But is that going to happen in the next year or two? Or are we about to hand them even more control and then spend the next 5-10 years trying to unwind it? As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t like this situation. I don’t think governments should have allowed it to get here. I’m not picking an”favorite monopoly”, just the option of the only two I see right now that I think will do less harm. We’ve screwed ourselves and I don’t want to make it worse for (at least) quite a few years.
        kelthuzad 10mo ago
        We are not "helpless" and setting an arbitrary 2-year deadline is a distraction. The DOJ and EU are moving faster than they have in decades. You ask what we can do? We can enforce browser choice screens and allow alternative engines immediately. This gives Firefox (Gecko) a fighting chance on mobile for the first time in history. Keeping the ecosystem locked down ensures Firefox never has a chance. That line of roleplay of yours also seems to be just 'Doomsday Defense' part 2. Now you’re adding an arbitrary time limit ("next two years") to justify inaction. We don't need to "unwind" Google before we stop Apple's anti-competitive behavior, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The fact that you view "allowing other browsers" (like Firefox) as "handing Google control" reveals the flaw in your logic. You are effectively arguing that we must destroy the village (the open web) to save it from the dragon, if this isn't concern trolling then I don't know what is.
- rplnt 10mo ago
  Always had. From blocking features by UA to ads worth billions of dollars (only little of which they had to actually pay).
geraldwhen 10mo ago
Google has no actual content left to find. It’s AI spam website after AI spam website. And if you find any content, it’s on a website riddled with ads. AI search has none of these issues. Google from 15 years ago was wildly superior to today.
- torben-friis 10mo ago
  >AI search has none of these issues Yet. AI feeds from the content it substitutes. I’m skeptical to the long term feasibility for this reason, how is it going to bring me news when publishing those news is no longer profitable, for example?
- zx8080 10mo ago
  The last working site in google search is reddit. Adding keyword reddit enables it. But it's disappointing.
  - geraldwhen 10mo ago
    Agreed. This is the only context in which I still use Google.
tom1337 10mo ago
> safari being the default app but this can change. At least in the EU Apple already prompts a user which browser they want [1]. While at the moment every browser is WebKit under the hood, this will probably change as the EU is also pushing Apple to allow other engines [2] - and with users knowing Chrome from Ads, their work or from a previous Android phone, I can imagine a lot of them selecting Chrome as a default. 1: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Apple-alters-selection-screen-for-default-apps-after-dialog-with-EU-Commission-9845059.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Apple-alters-selection-screen-f... 2: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engines/ https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...
s3p 10mo ago
Until websites block you from logging in, completing transactions, ordering items until you open it with Chrome
- MBCook 10mo ago
  Or just get buggy. I have absolutely run into sites that work on mobile Safari but not on desktop Safari. Because they don’t test it and don’t care. You HAVE to use Chrome or possibly Firefox. We’ve always seen what Firefox is doing, they’re not going to be our saviors again.
  - mdhb 10mo ago
    There’s a meaningful amount of blame here that sits squarely at the feet of Apple. 1. They produce the world’s buggiest browser by far. Look at this chart that shows the number of bugs that ONLY OCCUR IN A SINGLE BROWSER. https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&aligned https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&ali... 2. They don’t support any modern testing protocols like WebdriverBiDi 3. They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware. The core root of the problem is very clearly Apple who’ve done nothing other than make the world’s buggiest and least accessible browser and then tried to hold everyone hostage who was previously forced to use it until courts had to stop them and they had no choice.
    - MBCook 10mo ago
      > They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware. Why should they? When did this become a rule? If Atari survived would they be required to make Windows software? Be? Commodore? Where/why does/should the law require everyone to make Windows apps? Really?
      - throwaway7356 10mo ago
        Why should people buy special, extra expensive hardware to test with a bad web browser? It's logical to skip that step.

MBCook 10mo ago

It was the default on the Mac and it’s nowhere near the most popular there. Google pushes Chrome HARD.

cosmic_cheese 10mo ago
Yep. I've even been seeing Chrome TV ads lately (on Amazon Prime Video). They're marketing it pretty hard despite being dominant. Also, it's wise to not underestimate the power of developers ceasing to test against non-Blink browsers and taking a page from their IE-era past selves with "Best Viewed in Chrome" and "Browser outdated! Download Chrome" badges. There are few user motivators stronger than things not working.
ribosometronome 10mo ago
Similarly, Edge is the default on Windows. Chrome has 75% of the market share.
ndiddy 10mo ago
Yeah it's fun how Google displays a full-page ad for Chrome every few times I do a Google search on iOS Safari that I have to dismiss before seeing the results.
benoau 10mo ago
Yeah but the solution to that is to be good at breaking monopolies, not allowing one to stop another.
- kelthuzad 10mo ago
  [flagged]
- MBCook 10mo ago
  That’s what should have happened long ago. As far as I can see there are only two possibilities on any kind of near term: Apple can lock Google and everyone else out, or Google can take over the web fully. Those appear to be our only choices right now. I don’t like either one. But I know which one I don’t like more.
  - kelthuzad 10mo ago
    [flagged]
    - MBCook 10mo ago
      We are helpless now in the near term. It’s not trolling. What can we do in the next two years (let’s say) that would accomplish both letting other browsers on iOS and preventing Chrome from taking over everywhere? I don’t know of another option. As far as I can see, that’s it. Longer term yeah we should break up Google. If they didn’t own Chrome that would fix the problem. But is that going to happen in the next year or two? Or are we about to hand them even more control and then spend the next 5-10 years trying to unwind it? As I’ve said elsewhere I don’t like this situation. I don’t think governments should have allowed it to get here. I’m not picking an”favorite monopoly”, just the option of the only two I see right now that I think will do less harm. We’ve screwed ourselves and I don’t want to make it worse for (at least) quite a few years.
      - kelthuzad 10mo ago
        We are not "helpless" and setting an arbitrary 2-year deadline is a distraction. The DOJ and EU are moving faster than they have in decades. You ask what we can do? We can enforce browser choice screens and allow alternative engines immediately. This gives Firefox (Gecko) a fighting chance on mobile for the first time in history. Keeping the ecosystem locked down ensures Firefox never has a chance. That line of roleplay of yours also seems to be just 'Doomsday Defense' part 2. Now you’re adding an arbitrary time limit ("next two years") to justify inaction. We don't need to "unwind" Google before we stop Apple's anti-competitive behavior, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. The fact that you view "allowing other browsers" (like Firefox) as "handing Google control" reveals the flaw in your logic. You are effectively arguing that we must destroy the village (the open web) to save it from the dragon, if this isn't concern trolling then I don't know what is.
rplnt 10mo ago
Always had. From blocking features by UA to ads worth billions of dollars (only little of which they had to actually pay).

geraldwhen 10mo ago

Google has no actual content left to find. It’s AI spam website after AI spam website. And if you find any content, it’s on a website riddled with ads. AI search has none of these issues. Google from 15 years ago was wildly superior to today.

torben-friis 10mo ago
>AI search has none of these issues Yet. AI feeds from the content it substitutes. I’m skeptical to the long term feasibility for this reason, how is it going to bring me news when publishing those news is no longer profitable, for example?
zx8080 10mo ago
The last working site in google search is reddit. Adding keyword reddit enables it. But it's disappointing.
- geraldwhen 10mo ago
  Agreed. This is the only context in which I still use Google.

tom1337 10mo ago

> safari being the default app but this can change. At least in the EU Apple already prompts a user which browser they want [1]. While at the moment every browser is WebKit under the hood, this will probably change as the EU is also pushing Apple to allow other engines [2] - and with users knowing Chrome from Ads, their work or from a previous Android phone, I can imagine a lot of them selecting Chrome as a default. 1: https://www.heise.de/en/news/Apple-alters-selection-screen-for-default-apps-after-dialog-with-EU-Commission-9845059.html https://www.heise.de/en/news/Apple-alters-selection-screen-f... 2: https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engines/ https://developer.apple.com/support/alternative-browser-engi...

s3p 10mo ago

Until websites block you from logging in, completing transactions, ordering items until you open it with Chrome

MBCook 10mo ago
Or just get buggy. I have absolutely run into sites that work on mobile Safari but not on desktop Safari. Because they don’t test it and don’t care. You HAVE to use Chrome or possibly Firefox. We’ve always seen what Firefox is doing, they’re not going to be our saviors again.
- mdhb 10mo ago
  There’s a meaningful amount of blame here that sits squarely at the feet of Apple. 1. They produce the world’s buggiest browser by far. Look at this chart that shows the number of bugs that ONLY OCCUR IN A SINGLE BROWSER. https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&aligned https://wpt.fyi/results/?label=master&label=experimental&ali... 2. They don’t support any modern testing protocols like WebdriverBiDi 3. They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware. The core root of the problem is very clearly Apple who’ve done nothing other than make the world’s buggiest and least accessible browser and then tried to hold everyone hostage who was previously forced to use it until courts had to stop them and they had no choice.
  - MBCook 10mo ago
    > They don’t make their software available to anyone who isn’t using Apple’s hardware. Why should they? When did this become a rule? If Atari survived would they be required to make Windows software? Be? Commodore? Where/why does/should the law require everyone to make Windows apps? Really?
    - throwaway7356 10mo ago
      Why should people buy special, extra expensive hardware to test with a bad web browser? It's logical to skip that step.