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I've also noticed this recently. Python has a slide-in "donate now or we mug you". I consider this abuse of the visitor. I want my browser to protect me from A
by shevy-java 9mo ago
I've also noticed this recently. Python has a slide-in "donate
now or we mug you". I consider this abuse of the visitor.
I want my browser to protect me from ALL those things. Ublock
origin did precisely that, then Google went in to kill ublock
origin. Ublock lite is nowhere near as good.
I consider this betrayal - naturally by Google, but also by
random web designers such as on the python homepage who consider
it morally just to pester visitors when they do not want to be
pestered. I don't accept ads; I don't accept pop-ups or slide-in
effects (in 99.999% of the cases; notifications for some things
can be ok, but this does not extend in my book to donation
Robin Hood waylanders).
Note that ads like this have a negative effect on me, that is,
if e. g. python resorts to pop-ups to pester people to donate,
it will be permanently blocked by me and as a consequence never
receive any donation ever. This is my policy for dealing with
such malicious actors. This includes corporations, but as the
example of python shows, also python-devs who think they can
abuse users. I understand that some companies depend on ads,
but this is not my problem; I could not care about their thinking
that it were ok to waste people's time. This is why ublock origin
was so important: it helped people waste less time with crappy
ads and annoying UI. We need to take the web back from Evil such
as Google. We should not allow them to hijack our computer
systems and make excuses about it. The browser is too important
to leave it in the hands of Google or anyone else who thinks
pester-pop-ups are ok. Can someone fire the guy who made this
decision for the python homepage and ban him for life please?
- graemep 9mo ago> I've also noticed this recently. Python has a slide-in "donate now or we mug you". I consider this abuse of the visitor. To see it on python.org I had to enable JS (using noscript) AND disable uBlock Origin. > then Google went in to kill ublock origin. Ublock lite is nowhere near as good. Use Firefox
- Der_Einzige 9mo agoOr use other chromium based browsers! Thorium still has working uBlock origin!
- CryptoBanker 9mo agoHelium likewise
- beAbU 9mo agoAnd brave!
- moffkalast 9mo agoScrew Brave and their crypto bullshit.
- akimbostrawman 9mo agoIts opt-in unlike most of firefox data selling like Google search.
- ck2 9mo agothe catch is Widevine support if you still want to play videos from commercial sites all other chromium browsers cannot have signed widevine support? Firefox however solves both ublock and widevine
- someguyiguess 9mo agoSo the solution is to cripple your web experience by disabling interactivity and using a slower, more buggy browser? … how about stop making websites that are hostile to users?
- harshalizee 9mo agoFirefox has been far faster for me than chrome ever was (I have way too many tabs open that the same number would make chrome chug). It is also an interesting take to have while defending a browser that is actively hostile to the user.
- root_axis 9mo agoI haven't used chrome in years.I can't even imagine the user experience you're describing. Just use FF.
- ricardonunez 9mo agoGoogle own products have pop ups. Ad Sense automatic ads generates pop ups. I imagine this is hundreds on millions a month, there’s no way to justify shutting this down in their new “be evil profit at all cost” motto.
- CrossVR 9mo ago> I consider this betrayal - naturally by Google You're using a web browser built by a company whose primary income is advertising. What did you think would happen instead? A lot of people have this weird idea that companies are their friends and would defend their interests despite large financial incentives to betray that trust.
- h2zizzle 9mo ago"That's just how they make their money," is a common and terrible excuse.
- morcus 9mo agoIt's not making an excuse on the part of Google, it's pointing out the naivety of expecting otherwise from Google. Firefox still allows uBlock origin, and even on mobile.
- oreilles 9mo agoOne's expectations aren't in any way relevant in considering wether something is an asshole move or not.
- integralid 9mo agoCalling company strategy an "asshole move" is anthropomorphizing a lawnmower.
- amanaplanacanal 9mo agoCompany strategies are created by individual humans being assholes. Don't make excuses for them.
- hnbad 9mo agoBeing an asshole is incentivized by the system. If you don't want companies to behave like assholes, change the system to one that punishes that.
- Workaccount2 9mo agoIf you use a service, but never compensate the creators for it, how can you possibly reason they are immoral? Not directly at OP, but just in general, the Internet needs to look at itself in the mirror and ask "are we actually the ones driving the problem?"
- senko 9mo agoFree service with strings attached does sound like a "some day - and that day may never come - I will call upon you"[0] type of bargain. [0] https://youtu.be/HTTxJRAs-uA?t=48 https://youtu.be/HTTxJRAs-uA?t=48
- janez2 9mo agoyou have a tracking "si=..." parameter in the youtube link
- senko 9mo agoheh, qed. thanks, edited the comment to remove the tracking param.
- paulryanrogers 9mo agoExcept the terms aren't vague. They are spelled out. Usually the deal is to accept exposure to ads. While the terms may change in the future, the switching cost of a different browser or website are often quite low.
- kaoD 9mo agoI didn't accept any deal by clicking a link that took me to a webpage. I don't think anyone using Python, which is GPL-compatible, expects it to come with a "and you'll see our popup advertising for donations if you visit our site". If you (generic "you") make me accept that deal, guess what: I won't (and I actually don't, this happens routinely to me since I'm european -- I always close pages that ask me to "log in or accept our cookies"). Feel free to block me. I don't care that much about your content anyways. I won't see ads one way, or the other. And I will work hard to make this the default experience of my friends and family. I'd gladly click a checkbox "tell the server I'm using adblock so they can block me". I don't care about your content that much. It's often crap and low value, that's why you do drive-by advertising with clickbait titles and low effort mass slop.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- apricot 9mo ago> Ublock origin did precisely that, then Google went in to kill ublock origin. Advertising company's browser makes it hard to block ads. Film at 11.
- quesera 9mo agoI feel like the tech user community has completely lost the plot sometimes. Remember when we had to listen to Windows users complaining about irritating OS behaviour (performance problems, BSOD, ribbons, clippies, Activation Keys, terrible networking protocols)? After we reached age 15 or so, we learned to politely hold back from saying "yeah we know, use a better OS"? This feels very similar. I'll be polite. :)
- scrollaway 9mo ago> I feel like the tech user community has completely lost the plot sometimes. You're mixing "badly implemented operating system", "UX patterns I disagree with", "dark patterns pushed by corporate greed", and "Turns out you need money in order to pay developer salaries even in an open source project". I'll be polite as well and not elaborate further...
- quesera 9mo agoYou make a fair point that my attempt at humor is a bit oversimplified. But it's also the best-available solution. The problems described do not exist on the other side of the fence. Others have different criteria, but we are happy with ours and wonder if y'all might be too.
- paulryanrogers 9mo agoYou think Python is being malicious for asking for donations when they give away so much for free? Had you already paid for it ahead of time?
- PaulHoule 9mo agoPersonally I wouldn't mind the ask, it's the pop-up that covers content that I mind.
- tpm 9mo agoNo, the issue is the intrusive way of asking.
- Kwpolska 9mo agoIt’s not Python asking for donations, it’s the Python Software Foundation. Which means donations won’t necessarily go to improving Python or running PyPI, but your money might end up funding a conference in Trumpistan, outreach for the world’s most popular programming language, or political activities.
- manwe150 9mo agoYou apparently can donate to PyPI more directly if you want (same popup, but redirects to a more specific donation site), though since that site is run by PSF, that money goes through PSF and it is unclear if it is earmarked along the way: https://psfmember.org/civicrm/contribute/transact/?reset=1&id=13 https://psfmember.org/civicrm/contribute/transact/?reset=1&i...
- LtWorf 9mo agoWhy would I want to donate to pypi? So that corporations can redownload the same files over and over millions of times in their ci/cd and be lazy about creating a local mirror? Or to fund more integration with github, or remove more features?
- blell 9mo agoThis is very important. It's one thing to have your money improve CPython, it's another to have your money go towards an outreach program to help disadvantaged girls in Uganda write a Tetris clone in Python. It's similar to what happens with Mozilla. A way of choosing what exactly will be done with your money is fundamental to get donations.
- DeusExMachina 9mo ago> I understand that some companies depend on ads, but this is not my problem It is their problem, though, and they have figured out that pop-ups work. It is not their problem, however, if you decide to never go to their website again. They likely do not want you to go anymore to their website if you are never going to contribute anything.
- ecosystem 9mo agoShort-term thinking is how hegemonies end.
- DeusExMachina 9mo agoRevenue is how businesses and even no-profits survive. You can be idealistic about it all you want, but if there is no cash flow, those websites will go away.
- rockskon 9mo agoPop-ups working on (to pick a number out of thin air) 0.01% of viewers and alienating 5% to never visit the website again is still incentive to use pop-ups. Pop-ups working to get money and pop-ups working to alienate users are not mutually exclusive.
- DeusExMachina 9mo agoWhere did you pull those numbers out from? But ok, if we want to play with made up numbers, pop-ups working with the 0.01% of viewers that are willing to spend money are worth alienating even 10% of people that will never spend a dime. You are assuming every visitor is the same, when most are just a waste of resources.
- LtWorf 9mo agoThey aren't poor. It's similar to what wikipedia does. They have loads of money but make banners making people think they're strapped for cash and about to go offline. It's a scam.
- bandrami 9mo agoFor that matter the GNOME desktop asked me for money the other day
- ndiddy 9mo agoKDE started doing a similar thing in 2024. They pop up a notification asking for donations once yearly. Whether you click "Donate" or "No Thanks" on the pop-up, it will go away until the next year. I don't mind them doing this, as it clearly works (see https://pointieststick.com/2024/12/02/i-think-the-donation-notification-works/ https://pointieststick.com/2024/12/02/i-think-the-donation-n... and https://pointieststick.com/2025/12/28/highlights-from-2025/ https://pointieststick.com/2025/12/28/highlights-from-2025/ ). Historically, contributions to KDE mainly came from companies/government agencies funding work on specific technologies/parts of the desktop, and volunteers working on their special interests. This meant there was a giant blind spot for work on areas that weren't relevant for corporations/governments and weren't fun to work on in someone's free time. All the small individual donations make it possible for KDE to act independently of these large companies/government bodies and hire its own developers to work on tasks that may not be commercially relevant or fun, but are important to the project.
- trinix912 9mo agoIMO it's only fine as long as it respects the user's choice and doesn't keep on asking. If I choose to not donate, do not nag me about it the next year either. If I choose to donate, do not remind me to do it again. I will do it myself if I decide to. Perhaps it's cultural - where I live repeatedly asking for money is highly frowned upon and only lowers the reputation of the non-profit doing it. The non-profits who only ask once are much more likely to receive multiple donations from the same person.
- monegator 9mo ago"did"? still does. Just don't use chrome.
- Zardoz84 9mo agouBlock Origin it's very alive and working fine in Firefox and forks of it.
- wdr1 9mo ago> I consider this abuse of the visitor. Why can't anything simply be "disliked" anymore? I get you don't like it. But abused? Because there's a slide-in? On a site run by volunteers? For open source software you get for free? That you freely choose to visit? Calling that abuse seems... off. I have no concerns with people saying the don't like something. But the current nature to be hyperbolic is off-putting to me.
- quesera 9mo agoHow about "user-hostile"? A thing that the user does not want, but is presented on top of content that they do want, is not serving user intent. Of course, it's serving the needs of the project, theoretically. (Organizational capture of organizational perpetuation at the expense of organizational goals are a common problem, but I don't have any opinion or knowledge of this case.) Adopting the user-hostile behaviours of advertising and perpetual fundraising are not a great way to make users happy. But they work, I guess. At some cost. Don't ask me, I voted by disabling JavaScript and running Firefox. I don't have these problems.
- croemer 9mo agoThere's a thread (now locked) on the Python discourse forum about the popup: https://discuss.python.org/t/accessibility-issues-in-the-pypi-donation-banner/105383 https://discuss.python.org/t/accessibility-issues-in-the-pyp...
- quesera 9mo agoIt's actually kind of embarassing seeing someone from the org chime in and say ~"this is our first time doing this, so we expected feedback" ... and separately infuriating ~"we will take this into account for next year". a) Any Internet-enabled human should have seen and avoided this problem from a million miles away. b) "We expected feedback" ?? this phrase is fucking insulting, sorry. c) Not next year. Take it down now and preserve some credibility. What is wrong with you people?
- 9mo ago
- doodlesdev 9mo ago> I've also noticed this recently. Python has a slide-in "donate now or we mug you". I consider this abuse of the visitor. I had to disable uBlock Origin to test this and... wow, what a load of bullshit. If anything, this kind of stuff makes me want to _not_ donate to that project. All projects I've donated to in the past were the ones which didn't bother me with these things. I wonder now how many of these I've been missing because of uBlock Origin + DNS Blocking + JS disabled. Last time I tried a normie browser (my mom's), I had to install uBlock Origin there, because I just couldn't use it that way. I feel sorry for the majority of web users, who don't have any protections against popups and invasive advertisements.
- dfxm12 9mo agoIt's enshitification of the web. As time moves forward, the web becomes less usable and more about implementing dark patterns to squeeze a few bucks out of you. Anyone would have likely eventually made this decision. It's just a natural conclusion of capitalism.
- tzs 9mo ago> Note that ads like this have a negative effect on me, that is, if e. g. python resorts to pop-ups to pester people to donate, it will be permanently blocked by me and as a consequence never receive any donation ever. How much were you donating to them before the pop-up?
- alexitosrv 9mo ago> Python has a slide-in "donate now or we mug you" Visited python.org and... you were not exaggerating! wth!
- LtWorf 9mo ago> Python has a slide-in "donate now or we mug you". I consider this abuse of the visitor. They even locked the thread on discuss that was asking for its removal.