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> Plenty of people are happier with nicer things. Are they truly happier, in the sense of being more content? Or are they just deriving more temporary pleasur

> Plenty of people are happier with nicer things. Are they truly happier, in the sense of being more content? Or are they just deriving more temporary pleasure from the hedonic treadmill they're on? You can probably tell which one it is, by how long their happiness with their house / car / TV / fill-in-the-blank lasts, before they start thinking about trading up to an even nicer fill-in-the-blank. Buddhist monk Matthieu Ricard wrote a great book on happiness, here's an excerpt I enjoy which talks about the difference between pleasure and happiness, in two parts. [1] [2] 1. https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/pleasure-and-happiness-the-great-mix-up-part-1/ https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/pleasure-and-happiness-the... 2. https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/pleasure-and-happiness-the-great-mix-up-part-2/ https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/pleasure-and-happiness-the...

pm90 10mo ago
This is a deeply personal decision and I categorically reject any kind of moralization around frugality.
- toomanyrichies 10mo ago
  Fair enough on the personal decision part. I'm less interested in telling people what to do and more interested in whether the premise ('nicer things = happier') actually tracks with how human satisfaction works. The research suggests it often doesn't, which seems worth knowing regardless of what you choose to do with that information. [1] 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/690806/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/690806/
- simgt 10mo ago
  It's a bit more than just a personal decision. Overconsumption is ruining our environment, which we collectively have to share.
- throw0101a 10mo ago
  > This is a deeply personal decision and I categorically reject any kind of moralization around frugality. It's not a bout moralizing but recognizing how the reward centres of the human brain work: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill I would recommend the recently published book The Art of Spending Money by Morgan Housel, or check out the interviews he's done in recent months on it: * https://collabfund.com/blog/my-new-book-the-art-of-spending-money/ https://collabfund.com/blog/my-new-book-the-art-of-spending-... It's not about being frugal or cheap or spendy, but on recognizing human psychology and what actually brings most people happiness. See also the 85-year Harvard study on the topic: * https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11575524/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11575524/ * https://the-good-life-book.com https://the-good-life-book.com * https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-8...
bryanrasmussen 10mo ago
Maslow's hierarchy of needs would assume that there is a point beyond which extra material comfort does not make you happy or content, but it also is quite clear that there is a point at up to which it does. Most books on happiness are written for people who are long past the point where increasing their monetary inputs will increase their happiness and contentment, but it is also clear those people exist and are perhaps even in the majority of humanity.
nl 10mo ago
I really don't like this moralizing but more importantly there's increasing evidence that wealth does correlate with life satisfaction. > The data showed the happiness gap between wealthy and middle-income participants was wider than between middle- and low-income participants. And the apparent reason: > He said: “A greater feeling of control over life can explain about 75% of the association between money and happiness. So I think a big part of what’s happening is that, when people have more money, they have more control over their lives. More freedom to live the life they want to live.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/money-buys-happiness-study# https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/mone...
- elcritch 10mo ago
  Sure, but I’d argue that it’s largely reduced stress rather than raw materialism. For example being able not to worry about paying both the electric bill and a child’s dental work this month. There’s many other research that corroborates this view. After some point increasing income didn’t increase life satisfaction. Usually somewhere in the low upper-middle class region.
  - nl 10mo ago
    > After some point increasing income didn’t increase life satisfaction. Usually somewhere in the low upper-middle class region. That's the common assumption that this research repudiates. > These findings are counter to a widely covered 2010 study that found happiness rises with income, but plateaus at around $75,000. He studied much richer people: > Killingsworth also used data from the ultra-wealthy (people with a median net worth between $3m and $7.9m), which is often lacking and difficult to obtain. > The data showed the happiness gap between wealthy and middle-income participants was wider than between middle- and low-income participants. > His study also found wealthy individuals were “substantially and statistically significantly happier than people earning over $500,000 each year”.
matwood 10mo ago
> Are they truly happier, in the sense of being more content? The biggest thing anyone can do in their life is figure out exactly what makes them happy, and spend their money there. Don't let society tell you. People on this site likely care about computers and spend a disproportionate amount of their money on them, and that's ok. I don't care about cars or TVs, but I care about experiences and comfort so will spend money on travel and upgraded plane tickets. I also care about agency, so tend to save money rather than spend. I want the freedom it provides more than what it can buy - typically.

pm90 10mo ago

This is a deeply personal decision and I categorically reject any kind of moralization around frugality.

toomanyrichies 10mo ago
Fair enough on the personal decision part. I'm less interested in telling people what to do and more interested in whether the premise ('nicer things = happier') actually tracks with how human satisfaction works. The research suggests it often doesn't, which seems worth knowing regardless of what you choose to do with that information. [1] 1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/690806/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/690806/
simgt 10mo ago
It's a bit more than just a personal decision. Overconsumption is ruining our environment, which we collectively have to share.
throw0101a 10mo ago
> This is a deeply personal decision and I categorically reject any kind of moralization around frugality. It's not a bout moralizing but recognizing how the reward centres of the human brain work: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill I would recommend the recently published book The Art of Spending Money by Morgan Housel, or check out the interviews he's done in recent months on it: * https://collabfund.com/blog/my-new-book-the-art-of-spending-money/ https://collabfund.com/blog/my-new-book-the-art-of-spending-... It's not about being frugal or cheap or spendy, but on recognizing human psychology and what actually brings most people happiness. See also the 85-year Harvard study on the topic: * https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11575524/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11575524/ * https://the-good-life-book.com https://the-good-life-book.com * https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/ https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-8...

bryanrasmussen 10mo ago

Maslow's hierarchy of needs would assume that there is a point beyond which extra material comfort does not make you happy or content, but it also is quite clear that there is a point at up to which it does. Most books on happiness are written for people who are long past the point where increasing their monetary inputs will increase their happiness and contentment, but it is also clear those people exist and are perhaps even in the majority of humanity.

nl 10mo ago

I really don't like this moralizing but more importantly there's increasing evidence that wealth does correlate with life satisfaction. > The data showed the happiness gap between wealthy and middle-income participants was wider than between middle- and low-income participants. And the apparent reason: > He said: “A greater feeling of control over life can explain about 75% of the association between money and happiness. So I think a big part of what’s happening is that, when people have more money, they have more control over their lives. More freedom to live the life they want to live.” https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/money-buys-happiness-study# https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jul/18/mone...

elcritch 10mo ago
Sure, but I’d argue that it’s largely reduced stress rather than raw materialism. For example being able not to worry about paying both the electric bill and a child’s dental work this month. There’s many other research that corroborates this view. After some point increasing income didn’t increase life satisfaction. Usually somewhere in the low upper-middle class region.
- nl 10mo ago
  > After some point increasing income didn’t increase life satisfaction. Usually somewhere in the low upper-middle class region. That's the common assumption that this research repudiates. > These findings are counter to a widely covered 2010 study that found happiness rises with income, but plateaus at around $75,000. He studied much richer people: > Killingsworth also used data from the ultra-wealthy (people with a median net worth between $3m and $7.9m), which is often lacking and difficult to obtain. > The data showed the happiness gap between wealthy and middle-income participants was wider than between middle- and low-income participants. > His study also found wealthy individuals were “substantially and statistically significantly happier than people earning over $500,000 each year”.

matwood 10mo ago

> Are they truly happier, in the sense of being more content? The biggest thing anyone can do in their life is figure out exactly what makes them happy, and spend their money there. Don't let society tell you. People on this site likely care about computers and spend a disproportionate amount of their money on them, and that's ok. I don't care about cars or TVs, but I care about experiences and comfort so will spend money on travel and upgraded plane tickets. I also care about agency, so tend to save money rather than spend. I want the freedom it provides more than what it can buy - typically.