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Many of these "social" media websites increasingly just fling AI-generated disturbing videos at people. I am sure we could build a web that is actually pleasant

Many of these "social" media websites increasingly just fling AI-generated disturbing videos at people. I am sure we could build a web that is actually pleasant to use for kids, but we are not building it. youtube for example: https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/2006013682472669589 https://x.com/kimmonismus/status/2006013682472669589

Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago
If we did build it and it became popular, it would quickly be taken over by the same forces that are destroying the current internet. To get good social media sites (and a better internet as well), you would first have to change the economics of the entire system driving these forces. But as is said "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism".
- IncreasePosts 10mo ago
  it doesn't need to be social media, it could be an entirely closed system with some moderators curating content.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago
    Well, that's why we use HN. So far no ads, how long that lasts is anyone's guess.
    - throwaway85825 10mo ago
      HN does have ads.
      - wolvoleo 10mo ago
        It has some job postings yes but they are really few and far between. And really inconspicuous. And don't try to track us across the internet. If all ads were like this we wouldn't hate them. And I don't think they will start. It's good advertising for Ycombinator (I'd never heard of them before) and it doesn't cost a fortune to run really. They have one employee (or maybe 2 now?) and it all runs on one physical server. It's not a meta with a huge workforce and offices and datacenters all over the world.
  - jackvalentine 10mo ago
    Right? As a teenager on overclocking forums there was a strong mod presence and you knew them. They were quick to delete any shit and keep a lid on the drama - playing a very effective ‘big brother’ role for the rest of us to have a great time. What makes this impossible is the scale that people assume you need to cater for. When you limit your population to a reasonable size then moderation is easy and everyone gets to know the expectations of the community.
    - expedition32 10mo ago
      Yep this is it. These social media companies don't want to moderate because it costs too much. Unfortunately we have built a world in which people can live stream terrorist attacks or child rape.
- pear01 10mo ago
  It's really not that dramatic. Just build it like more classic media. Curated content the company takes responsibility for, closed platform, pay upfront. Or have public programming, that is the oldest model there is. Ad driven online content is especially bad for kids. But let's not pretend the only way to find an alternative is to end the world. The fact is the "bad" solution is popular because consumers say they care about these things but then in real life they act like they don't. If no one watched the problem would solve itself. Thus, I'm not sure the solution is even to be found in platforms, if parents are burned out or don't have ways to make better choices for their kids. That's a reason for these laws, to essentially just take it out of people's hands.
  - Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago
    The consumer gets bait & switched. When ad-free pay upfront cable tv first started, people switched over. We showed that yes indeed we like ad-free shows and are willing to pay for them. They said, well that's great, but we can make more money if we show you ads so they did and we ended up paying up front and getting obnoxious ads. Then when online streaming started, we all switched over. We showed that yes indeed we like ad-free shows and are willing to pay upfront for them. They said, well that's great, but we can make more money if we show you ads so they did and we ended up paying up front and getting obnoxious ads. The moment it become sufficient popular and the people get sufficiently locked in, the ads come. Every time.
piker 10mo ago
This must kill that platform.
Workaccount2 10mo ago
From my experience as a kid "Pleasant for kids to use is the polar opposite of kids finding it a pleasure to use"
- littlestymaar 10mo ago
  Video games from the 90s were actually pleasant as a kid, and I'm happy to see my kids enjoying them today rather than the slot machines that the industry makes for kids these days… (Unfortunately I'm well aware that it won't last long, because social pressure is impossible to fight at individual scale)
  - Ritewut 10mo ago
    Social pressure is much easier to fight than you think but it involves being an active parent and letting your kids invite friends over to play. Most parents are not willing or are unable to do take that active role for one reason or another.
    - immibis 10mo ago
      it would also be easier if, like, social media was banned for kids
      - Ritewut 10mo ago
        You could be a parent or let the state parent for you.
        littlestymaar 10mo ago
        Sorry to disappoint you, but from ten years old onwards your kids spend way more time socializing with other members of Society than with their parents, and there's no way around that, so I'd rather live in a society where kids aren't being abused by harmful businesses (be then booze or social media makers). The State is just the democratically organized emanation of Society. And believe it or not, humans are social animals.
aunty_helen 10mo ago
Not sure why you think this has anything to do with children other than in name. It’s ID verification.
- ruszki 10mo ago
  You will loose this argument because there is a real problem with children and AI slop. Especially because there is a problem with AI slop and handling it by people in general. Provide a solution which doesn’t require that, like some other top commenter did. Otherwise, you have already lost.
  - petermcneeley 10mo ago
    Oh now its AI slop lol. Anyway the fact is that no children should be left unattended on the internet.
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
    - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
      So 13 year olds have to have active parental helicoptering for every piece of homework they do?
      - razakel 10mo ago
        No, just education in media literacy and how to critically evaluate sources.
        ruszki 10mo ago
        That’s a problem that just a small portion of the population know these, so the average parent has the same problem.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
Der_Einzige 10mo ago
This has been going on since well before COVID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate
casey2 10mo ago
Any kind of social media ban would mean more people consuming "traditional" media, which is much worse. I would rather have my kid watch nothing but AI slop then get even 30 seconds of FAUX news. Lost my father to actual brain rot, FUCK YOU NEWSCORP!
- lazyeye 10mo ago
  Are your kids or father on social media shouting FUCK YOU THIS or FUCK YOU THAT?

Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago

If we did build it and it became popular, it would quickly be taken over by the same forces that are destroying the current internet. To get good social media sites (and a better internet as well), you would first have to change the economics of the entire system driving these forces. But as is said "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism".

IncreasePosts 10mo ago
it doesn't need to be social media, it could be an entirely closed system with some moderators curating content.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago
  Well, that's why we use HN. So far no ads, how long that lasts is anyone's guess.
  - throwaway85825 10mo ago
    HN does have ads.
    - wolvoleo 10mo ago
      It has some job postings yes but they are really few and far between. And really inconspicuous. And don't try to track us across the internet. If all ads were like this we wouldn't hate them. And I don't think they will start. It's good advertising for Ycombinator (I'd never heard of them before) and it doesn't cost a fortune to run really. They have one employee (or maybe 2 now?) and it all runs on one physical server. It's not a meta with a huge workforce and offices and datacenters all over the world.
- jackvalentine 10mo ago
  Right? As a teenager on overclocking forums there was a strong mod presence and you knew them. They were quick to delete any shit and keep a lid on the drama - playing a very effective ‘big brother’ role for the rest of us to have a great time. What makes this impossible is the scale that people assume you need to cater for. When you limit your population to a reasonable size then moderation is easy and everyone gets to know the expectations of the community.
  - expedition32 10mo ago
    Yep this is it. These social media companies don't want to moderate because it costs too much. Unfortunately we have built a world in which people can live stream terrorist attacks or child rape.
pear01 10mo ago
It's really not that dramatic. Just build it like more classic media. Curated content the company takes responsibility for, closed platform, pay upfront. Or have public programming, that is the oldest model there is. Ad driven online content is especially bad for kids. But let's not pretend the only way to find an alternative is to end the world. The fact is the "bad" solution is popular because consumers say they care about these things but then in real life they act like they don't. If no one watched the problem would solve itself. Thus, I'm not sure the solution is even to be found in platforms, if parents are burned out or don't have ways to make better choices for their kids. That's a reason for these laws, to essentially just take it out of people's hands.
- Eddy_Viscosity2 10mo ago
  The consumer gets bait & switched. When ad-free pay upfront cable tv first started, people switched over. We showed that yes indeed we like ad-free shows and are willing to pay for them. They said, well that's great, but we can make more money if we show you ads so they did and we ended up paying up front and getting obnoxious ads. Then when online streaming started, we all switched over. We showed that yes indeed we like ad-free shows and are willing to pay upfront for them. They said, well that's great, but we can make more money if we show you ads so they did and we ended up paying up front and getting obnoxious ads. The moment it become sufficient popular and the people get sufficiently locked in, the ads come. Every time.

piker 10mo ago

This must kill that platform.

Workaccount2 10mo ago

From my experience as a kid "Pleasant for kids to use is the polar opposite of kids finding it a pleasure to use"

littlestymaar 10mo ago
Video games from the 90s were actually pleasant as a kid, and I'm happy to see my kids enjoying them today rather than the slot machines that the industry makes for kids these days… (Unfortunately I'm well aware that it won't last long, because social pressure is impossible to fight at individual scale)
- Ritewut 10mo ago
  Social pressure is much easier to fight than you think but it involves being an active parent and letting your kids invite friends over to play. Most parents are not willing or are unable to do take that active role for one reason or another.
  - immibis 10mo ago
    it would also be easier if, like, social media was banned for kids
    - Ritewut 10mo ago
      You could be a parent or let the state parent for you.
      - littlestymaar 10mo ago
        Sorry to disappoint you, but from ten years old onwards your kids spend way more time socializing with other members of Society than with their parents, and there's no way around that, so I'd rather live in a society where kids aren't being abused by harmful businesses (be then booze or social media makers). The State is just the democratically organized emanation of Society. And believe it or not, humans are social animals.

aunty_helen 10mo ago

Not sure why you think this has anything to do with children other than in name. It’s ID verification.

ruszki 10mo ago
You will loose this argument because there is a real problem with children and AI slop. Especially because there is a problem with AI slop and handling it by people in general. Provide a solution which doesn’t require that, like some other top commenter did. Otherwise, you have already lost.
- petermcneeley 10mo ago
  Oh now its AI slop lol. Anyway the fact is that no children should be left unattended on the internet.
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - hdgvhicv 10mo ago
    So 13 year olds have to have active parental helicoptering for every piece of homework they do?
    - razakel 10mo ago
      No, just education in media literacy and how to critically evaluate sources.
      - ruszki 10mo ago
        That’s a problem that just a small portion of the population know these, so the average parent has the same problem.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

Der_Einzige 10mo ago

This has been going on since well before COVID: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsagate

casey2 10mo ago

Any kind of social media ban would mean more people consuming "traditional" media, which is much worse. I would rather have my kid watch nothing but AI slop then get even 30 seconds of FAUX news. Lost my father to actual brain rot, FUCK YOU NEWSCORP!

lazyeye 10mo ago
Are your kids or father on social media shouting FUCK YOU THIS or FUCK YOU THAT?