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I'm only YouTube-level informed on how silicon manufacturing works, but something that is, perhaps intentionally, not made clear to someone unfamiliar with the
by Squeeze2664 11mo ago
I'm only YouTube-level informed on how silicon manufacturing works, but something that is, perhaps intentionally, not made clear to someone unfamiliar with the field is that this is not manufacturing chips in space. This is to grow the crystals only, the very first step in silicon chip manufacturing. This is how you get the ingot, then you slice it to get the wafers upon which the chips are built. The reason you would even consider doing it in space in the first place is because, on Earth, gravity and other forces are stronger and result in lower-purity crystals. Basically, what I'm getting at, is that I believe this is pretty much a glorified oven. Moving the entire manufacturing process in space wouldn't make sense, as I don't think the benefits to other steps of the process like CVD would outweigh the insane costs of sending things into orbit.
- HPsquared 10mo agoIn a way that's good because they don't need logistics for the entire supply and production chain up there, they can just drop the (small and presumably valuable) silicon crystals back to Earth.
- dentalnanobot 10mo agoSilicon ingots used in chip manufacturing aren’t that small: like a ~400mm diameter cylinder a metre or so long, and from memory several hundred kilos.
- HPsquared 10mo agoLooking up their website, it sounds like the company are making only the seed crystal in space, not the entire silicon boule: "Space Forge is using space-derived crystal seeds to grow ultra-high quality semiconductor substrates on Earth." https://www.spaceforge.com/ https://www.spaceforge.com/
- guepe 10mo agoNote that growing ingots is an incredible feat at that purity and size that they achieve on earth. It’s already a very very hard step in a crazy process for entire chip manufacturing.
- RobotToaster 10mo agoLeaving aside the small issue of getting there, wouldn't it be easier to achieve in space given there is fewer impurities like air floating around?
- stevenwoo 10mo agoEven given that the sending finished products back to earth in same clean room conditions for next step seems challenging to make profitable. If it’s a proof of concept, okay, but to take it further the lithography step takes RV sized machines.
- meindnoch 10mo ago>this is not manufacturing chips in space *crisps It's from the UK.
- mkl 10mo agoChips are definitely a thing in the UK. Like French fries but usually chunkier: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fish_and_chips
- whynotmaybe 10mo agoWhich is called Fish and Chips in Canada, even though it's served with fries.
- NooneAtAll3 10mo agoI heard some restaurant getting sued for selling "fish and chips" without fish, but I don't remember how it ended
- thayne 10mo agoSame in the US
- teekert 10mo agoIn the Netherlands we have two words for fries and you know if someone is from the north or the south based on their use: Patat, north en Friet, south, particularly in the South people are sensitive to using the wrong, northern word. (And chips are just crisps here.)
- yurishimo 10mo agoWhat? Every time I see kids on the train they’re talking about going to the appie to buy a redbull and “zakje chips”. I live in Eindhoven though so idk if that plays a roll.
- 10mo ago
- willis936 10mo agoDo gravity-based defects outweigh displacement defects from fast particles? Also, there are large headwinds from having to ship up a large quantity of raw material and have to deorbit a payload so fragile that any amount of shock is unacceptable. Maybe a high purity silicon boule pays for these headwinds with room for profit on top. I'm skeptical, but time will tell.
- mattmaroon 10mo agoIt would be pretty easy for them to have done the math in advance and I’m sure they’re aware that space travel is expensive.
- dmurray 10mo agoI'm sure they've done the maths and determined that it's not economically feasible at all. But if it works as a proof of concept, in three or four generations time perhaps they'll have a scalable process which pays for itself.
- hackeraccount 10mo agoThis exactly. At scale there are a lot of things that are profitable that are idiotic when done Ad Hoc. To get to scale though you need a particular kind of bullshitter who can hold on to the idea that what they say is true and also on some level understand that they have to idea how to do the bullshit they're promoting.
- jdranczewski 10mo agoIf you've managed to find more details about what process exactly they're implementing I'd be glad to see it - I assumed plasma-based growth, since the BBC article mentions that it's a plasma that is at 1000C here (making heat dissipation less of a problem too), but if they're growing ingots that would usually be done from liquid silicon, which sounds like a mess in space. So are they doing plasma-growth of ingots (which I haven't heard of, but I haven't heard of many things), or are they bringing wafers up and growing ultra-pure layers on top... The website is not super clear on this from what I've seen.