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Amazon already has not been paying any sort of income tax to the EU. There was a lawsuit in Belgium but Amazon has won that in late-2024 since they had a separa

by pvtmert 10mo ago

Amazon already has not been paying any sort of income tax to the EU. There was a lawsuit in Belgium but Amazon has won that in late-2024 since they had a separate agreement in/with Luxembourg. Speaking for EU, all big tech already not paying taxes one way or another, either using Dublin/Ireland (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, ...) and Luxembourg (Amazon & Microsoft as far as I can tell) to avoid such corporate/income taxes. Simply possible because all the earnings go back to the U.S. entity in terms of "IP rights".

lotsofpulp 10mo ago
> Amazon already has not been paying any sort of income tax to the EU. That should be expected, because https://european-union.europa.eu/priorities-and-actions/actions-topic/taxation_en https://european-union.europa.eu/priorities-and-actions/acti... > The EU does not have a direct role in collecting taxes or setting tax rates. > There was a lawsuit in Belgium but Amazon has won that in late-2024 since they had a separate agreement in/with Luxembourg. Dec 2023. > Speaking for EU, all big tech already not paying taxes one way or another, either using Dublin/Ireland (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, ...) and Luxembourg (Amazon & Microsoft as far as I can tell) to avoid such corporate/income taxes. Simply possible because all the earnings go back to the U.S. entity in terms of "IP rights". Ireland (due to pressure from EU) closed this in 2020. The amount of tax collected by Ireland quadrupled. See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/10/14/the-end-of-the-double-irish https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/10/14/the-...
- benjiro 10mo ago
  > any sort of income tax to the EU. Its clear that OP means "in the EU". > Ireland (due to pressure from EU) closed this in 2020. The amount of tax collected by Ireland quadrupled. See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. And Ireland fought against this tooth and nail. Yes, a country was fighting to have less income. All out of fear that the companies will leave the little tax heaven. Did they leave? No ... > See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. Figure 7 is also interesting if we look at the tax income increase and the outbound.
- pvtmert 10mo ago
  I find it funny because; 1. Amazon reports 250bn$+ revenue for entire EU in 2025. (of course, revenue != profit) while all 250bn$+ evaporates to somewhere. Their own page [1] reports 225k employees across EU, meaning that each employee returns whopping 1 million plus dollars! While being compensated less than 10% of their value! 2. In their own article [1], they boast how they invested (translated; smuggled money out) and enabled SMEs 20bn$+ revenue. (Like seriously, less than 10%?! actually goes back into the economy...) 3. Amazon says that they have invested 250bn$ in EU since 2010. It is completely unknown what or where that was invested. I do not see my street lightning being improved by the Amazon's investment or garbage being collected better. 4. Luxembourg's GDP is ~95bn$ in 2025. Amazon has contributed to that with the 0$ corporate tax. Obviously they employed about 4.5k people which they've decided to let go about 10% of them. Where the median/average yearly gross salary stands somewhere around 80k eur, it is hardly anywhere near 1mm+$ total income. I am guessing that they heat up the offices with burning the remaining cash... [1]: https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/job-creation-and-investment/amazons-corporate-tax-contributions-in-europe https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/job-creation-and-investment/... For the date of the verdict for Amazon vs EU, apologies. The article date was November 2024 in the source [2]. [2]: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/308509/20241129/amazons-263m-back-taxes-europe-thrown-european-commission-ends-state-aid-case.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/308509/20241129/amazons-2... For the Ireland, I only knew similarities between Luxembourg and specific laws allowing such loopholes pre-brexit period. The source is certainly interesting and I need to dive deeper to understand better.
  - lotsofpulp 10mo ago
    >1. Amazon reports 250bn$+ revenue for entire EU in 2025. (of course, revenue != profit) while all 250bn$+ evaporates to somewhere. Their own page [1] reports 225k employees across EU, meaning that each employee returns whopping 1 million plus dollars! While being compensated less than 10% of their value! An employee's "value" is not revenue / number of employees. There are many businesses where employees are reduced, but revenue does not decrease in direct proportion. An employee's compensation is only related to what the employer thinks they can pay someone else and what the employee thinks another employer will pay them. Just like how the price of an apple is related to what the grocery store thinks a customer will pay for it and what the customer thinks a different grocery store will sell it for. (Obviously bounded on both sides by the minimum cost to produce and transport the apple, and by the maximum price a customer is able and willing to pay).
tacker2000 10mo ago
The EU doesnt collect income/corporate tax, the individual countries do. These big corps use holdings in low tax jurisdisctions like Ireland and Luxemburg, funnel all their EU subsidiaries’ revenues there and end up paying 0 tax in the individual EU countries. This system is actually legal, EU lawmakers should pass laws to prevent this.
- abc123abc123 10mo ago
  And let us not forget the millions and billions the global IT corporations pay in the EU in form of social security taxes, income taxes, the jobs they create, and the further millions and billions in the form of purchases from local delivery companies, consultants, DC vendors, office suppliers, taxi companies, delivery companies, food and catering and all the other local EU-based companies who benefit from having these giants walking among us.
  - saghm 10mo ago
    If that's a substitute for corporate taxes, why even have them at all, instead of there needing to be schemes so specific that they have their own Wikipedia articles to describe them [1]? Either you think that corporate taxes should exist, and therefore companies shouldn't just get to opt out of them based on whether they can make a claim to benefiting the economy via trickling down, or you don't, in which case you might as well just state that directly. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich?wprov=sfla1
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
  - pvtmert 10mo ago
    Those taxes are paid by the individuals, not by the companies. And the decision how to distribute these (corporate tax) should be done by the government. Essentially, companies evading [corporate] tax decides themselves where to distribute that money. Obviously, they make decisions that drives more profits and income, not the public good. Even if it improves living conditions (ie. delivery service would help elderly), it still requires that person to be user of the product. A layman/citizen cannot effectively utilize the benefits.

by pvtmert 10mo ago

lotsofpulp 10mo ago

> Amazon already has not been paying any sort of income tax to the EU. That should be expected, because https://european-union.europa.eu/priorities-and-actions/actions-topic/taxation_en https://european-union.europa.eu/priorities-and-actions/acti... > The EU does not have a direct role in collecting taxes or setting tax rates. > There was a lawsuit in Belgium but Amazon has won that in late-2024 since they had a separate agreement in/with Luxembourg. Dec 2023. > Speaking for EU, all big tech already not paying taxes one way or another, either using Dublin/Ireland (Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Meta, ...) and Luxembourg (Amazon & Microsoft as far as I can tell) to avoid such corporate/income taxes. Simply possible because all the earnings go back to the U.S. entity in terms of "IP rights". Ireland (due to pressure from EU) closed this in 2020. The amount of tax collected by Ireland quadrupled. See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/10/14/the-end-of-the-double-irish https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2024/10/14/the-...

benjiro 10mo ago
> any sort of income tax to the EU. Its clear that OP means "in the EU". > Ireland (due to pressure from EU) closed this in 2020. The amount of tax collected by Ireland quadrupled. See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. And Ireland fought against this tooth and nail. Yes, a country was fighting to have less income. All out of fear that the companies will leave the little tax heaven. Did they leave? No ... > See Figure 5 and 6 in link below. Figure 7 is also interesting if we look at the tax income increase and the outbound.
pvtmert 10mo ago
I find it funny because; 1. Amazon reports 250bn$+ revenue for entire EU in 2025. (of course, revenue != profit) while all 250bn$+ evaporates to somewhere. Their own page [1] reports 225k employees across EU, meaning that each employee returns whopping 1 million plus dollars! While being compensated less than 10% of their value! 2. In their own article [1], they boast how they invested (translated; smuggled money out) and enabled SMEs 20bn$+ revenue. (Like seriously, less than 10%?! actually goes back into the economy...) 3. Amazon says that they have invested 250bn$ in EU since 2010. It is completely unknown what or where that was invested. I do not see my street lightning being improved by the Amazon's investment or garbage being collected better. 4. Luxembourg's GDP is ~95bn$ in 2025. Amazon has contributed to that with the 0$ corporate tax. Obviously they employed about 4.5k people which they've decided to let go about 10% of them. Where the median/average yearly gross salary stands somewhere around 80k eur, it is hardly anywhere near 1mm+$ total income. I am guessing that they heat up the offices with burning the remaining cash... [1]: https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/job-creation-and-investment/amazons-corporate-tax-contributions-in-europe https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/job-creation-and-investment/... For the date of the verdict for Amazon vs EU, apologies. The article date was November 2024 in the source [2]. [2]: https://www.techtimes.com/articles/308509/20241129/amazons-263m-back-taxes-europe-thrown-european-commission-ends-state-aid-case.htm https://www.techtimes.com/articles/308509/20241129/amazons-2... For the Ireland, I only knew similarities between Luxembourg and specific laws allowing such loopholes pre-brexit period. The source is certainly interesting and I need to dive deeper to understand better.
- lotsofpulp 10mo ago
  >1. Amazon reports 250bn$+ revenue for entire EU in 2025. (of course, revenue != profit) while all 250bn$+ evaporates to somewhere. Their own page [1] reports 225k employees across EU, meaning that each employee returns whopping 1 million plus dollars! While being compensated less than 10% of their value! An employee's "value" is not revenue / number of employees. There are many businesses where employees are reduced, but revenue does not decrease in direct proportion. An employee's compensation is only related to what the employer thinks they can pay someone else and what the employee thinks another employer will pay them. Just like how the price of an apple is related to what the grocery store thinks a customer will pay for it and what the customer thinks a different grocery store will sell it for. (Obviously bounded on both sides by the minimum cost to produce and transport the apple, and by the maximum price a customer is able and willing to pay).

tacker2000 10mo ago

The EU doesnt collect income/corporate tax, the individual countries do. These big corps use holdings in low tax jurisdisctions like Ireland and Luxemburg, funnel all their EU subsidiaries’ revenues there and end up paying 0 tax in the individual EU countries. This system is actually legal, EU lawmakers should pass laws to prevent this.

abc123abc123 10mo ago
And let us not forget the millions and billions the global IT corporations pay in the EU in form of social security taxes, income taxes, the jobs they create, and the further millions and billions in the form of purchases from local delivery companies, consultants, DC vendors, office suppliers, taxi companies, delivery companies, food and catering and all the other local EU-based companies who benefit from having these giants walking among us.
- saghm 10mo ago
  If that's a substitute for corporate taxes, why even have them at all, instead of there needing to be schemes so specific that they have their own Wikipedia articles to describe them [1]? Either you think that corporate taxes should exist, and therefore companies shouldn't just get to opt out of them based on whether they can make a claim to benefiting the economy via trickling down, or you don't, in which case you might as well just state that directly. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Sandwich?wprov=sfla1
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
- pvtmert 10mo ago
  Those taxes are paid by the individuals, not by the companies. And the decision how to distribute these (corporate tax) should be done by the government. Essentially, companies evading [corporate] tax decides themselves where to distribute that money. Obviously, they make decisions that drives more profits and income, not the public good. Even if it improves living conditions (ie. delivery service would help elderly), it still requires that person to be user of the product. A layman/citizen cannot effectively utilize the benefits.