3 ms·

> “Our officers will respond to investigate the nature of the call,” OPD said in a statement. “If our officers determine this is a landlord-tenant issue, the ca

> “Our officers will respond to investigate the nature of the call,” OPD said in a statement. “If our officers determine this is a landlord-tenant issue, the case will be referred to the Alameda County Sheriff’s Office for further investigation.” People unlawfully squat and the official position of the Police is shrug. Small wonder people are unhappy with the system and there's a market popping up for extra-judicial evictions.

OgsyedIE 10mo ago
Honestly I think there are too few evictions. The working homeless are worse at contributing to natalism than the working housed and there are too many Americans for the global aquifer budget to support. A mass fertility reduction can only really happen through a decline in prosperity. Ideally, the American housing policy framework should be exported globally as much as possible, too. https://www.footprintnetwork.org/ https://www.footprintnetwork.org/
- ares623 10mo ago
  > A mass fertility reduction can only really happen through a decline in prosperity. Uhh I think you got it backwards. The poorer a country is, the higher its fertility rates.
  - OgsyedIE 10mo ago
    The poorer a pre-industrial country is, the higher its fertility rates. Countries that have already gone through the industrial revolution and demographic transition form a different cluster with an inverted trend line.
  - hephaes7us 10mo ago
    That may have more to do with the type of economic activity occurring in the country than wealth, necessarily.
gottorf 10mo ago
> People unlawfully squat My understanding of CA tenancy law is that it's so tilted in favor of the tenant, that if someone just claims to be one, the police have to shrug. > Small wonder people are unhappy with the system and there's a market popping up for extra-judicial evictions Well-intentioned laws, upon contact with the real world, often end up with undesirable secondary and tertiary consequences such as this.
- thereisnospork 10mo ago
  Broadly agree. Would probably be much cleaner all around if in such cases the law dictated possession back to the property owner with ~ treble damages/attorney's fees/statutory damages/reversion of possession in the cases where the alleged squatter was lawfully occupying. Basically enough to entice a lawyer to take the case on contingency and make it unequivocally in the favor of a hypothetically wronged tenant, while not allowing squatters to abuse the existing legal process.
  - lotsofpulp 10mo ago
    Treble damages don’t matter when the opposing party has nothing to lose. The arbitrage exists because one party has nothing to lose and the other party has a lot to lose.
    - eudamoniac 10mo ago
      They can always lose their freedom or life. I'm in favor of jailing and/or executing squatters, personally.
viraptor 10mo ago
That sounds like a mostly reasonable approach from the police though. Do you want want a police raid just because you did something the landlord doesn't like? Do you want the issue decided on the spot with little actual knowledge? Unless the place is being actually damaged, it's likely better to take the time - there's too much possibility for harassment otherwise.
- like_any_other 10mo ago
  > Do you want the issue decided on the spot with little actual knowledge? Oh so after a ~week long prompt investigation, the police, now well informed, act decisively? Strange then how the landlord in the story would rather pay $12,500 to this swordsman than wait one or two weeks.
  - viraptor 10mo ago
    Legal process and approved enforcement not working correctly is a separate issue. Neither that nor the original problem will get solved by allowing police to intervene in all rental disputes and be the immediate judge and enforcer.
    - like_any_other 10mo ago
      > immediate I gave my hypothetical to point out your "on the spot" was a strawman, and here you strawman again. Nobody demanded "immediate", and after the police verified that you are the lawful owner, and that there is no tenancy contract notarized/registered with the state, the squatters should be kicked out. But this is as ridiculous as the police refusing to remove someone from, say, your server farm, because that someone claims he's your employee and allowed to be there/actually he's the owner, prove he's not in a protracted civil procedure, during which time he dismantles your servers and sells them for parts. A year later when you get your judgment and can finally kick him out, a second squatter appears and you have to start all over again. Trespassing and theft are criminal matters, and the police should treat them as such, even if the thief/trespasser says "actually, I'm not stealing/trespassing, this is mine/I live here".
IncreasePosts 10mo ago
Police are not in the business of reading contracts and determining who is in the right or wrong. They'll remove trespassers but these squatters will usually claim that they have a rental agreement, or that they've lived there long enough that there is a de facto agreement.
Ekaros 10mo ago
Should really be some sort of government process and speedy trial in court. Say inside a week. Show a lease or get year in free accommodation by the state. Both sides win. Property owner frees the property and squatter gets free government paid housing for longer period.

OgsyedIE 10mo ago

Honestly I think there are too few evictions. The working homeless are worse at contributing to natalism than the working housed and there are too many Americans for the global aquifer budget to support. A mass fertility reduction can only really happen through a decline in prosperity. Ideally, the American housing policy framework should be exported globally as much as possible, too. https://www.footprintnetwork.org/ https://www.footprintnetwork.org/

ares623 10mo ago
> A mass fertility reduction can only really happen through a decline in prosperity. Uhh I think you got it backwards. The poorer a country is, the higher its fertility rates.
- OgsyedIE 10mo ago
  The poorer a pre-industrial country is, the higher its fertility rates. Countries that have already gone through the industrial revolution and demographic transition form a different cluster with an inverted trend line.
- hephaes7us 10mo ago
  That may have more to do with the type of economic activity occurring in the country than wealth, necessarily.

gottorf 10mo ago

> People unlawfully squat My understanding of CA tenancy law is that it's so tilted in favor of the tenant, that if someone just claims to be one, the police have to shrug. > Small wonder people are unhappy with the system and there's a market popping up for extra-judicial evictions Well-intentioned laws, upon contact with the real world, often end up with undesirable secondary and tertiary consequences such as this.

thereisnospork 10mo ago
Broadly agree. Would probably be much cleaner all around if in such cases the law dictated possession back to the property owner with ~ treble damages/attorney's fees/statutory damages/reversion of possession in the cases where the alleged squatter was lawfully occupying. Basically enough to entice a lawyer to take the case on contingency and make it unequivocally in the favor of a hypothetically wronged tenant, while not allowing squatters to abuse the existing legal process.
- lotsofpulp 10mo ago
  Treble damages don’t matter when the opposing party has nothing to lose. The arbitrage exists because one party has nothing to lose and the other party has a lot to lose.
  - eudamoniac 10mo ago
    They can always lose their freedom or life. I'm in favor of jailing and/or executing squatters, personally.

viraptor 10mo ago

That sounds like a mostly reasonable approach from the police though. Do you want want a police raid just because you did something the landlord doesn't like? Do you want the issue decided on the spot with little actual knowledge? Unless the place is being actually damaged, it's likely better to take the time - there's too much possibility for harassment otherwise.

like_any_other 10mo ago
> Do you want the issue decided on the spot with little actual knowledge? Oh so after a ~week long prompt investigation, the police, now well informed, act decisively? Strange then how the landlord in the story would rather pay $12,500 to this swordsman than wait one or two weeks.
- viraptor 10mo ago
  Legal process and approved enforcement not working correctly is a separate issue. Neither that nor the original problem will get solved by allowing police to intervene in all rental disputes and be the immediate judge and enforcer.
  - like_any_other 10mo ago
    > immediate I gave my hypothetical to point out your "on the spot" was a strawman, and here you strawman again. Nobody demanded "immediate", and after the police verified that you are the lawful owner, and that there is no tenancy contract notarized/registered with the state, the squatters should be kicked out. But this is as ridiculous as the police refusing to remove someone from, say, your server farm, because that someone claims he's your employee and allowed to be there/actually he's the owner, prove he's not in a protracted civil procedure, during which time he dismantles your servers and sells them for parts. A year later when you get your judgment and can finally kick him out, a second squatter appears and you have to start all over again. Trespassing and theft are criminal matters, and the police should treat them as such, even if the thief/trespasser says "actually, I'm not stealing/trespassing, this is mine/I live here".

IncreasePosts 10mo ago

Police are not in the business of reading contracts and determining who is in the right or wrong. They'll remove trespassers but these squatters will usually claim that they have a rental agreement, or that they've lived there long enough that there is a de facto agreement.

Ekaros 10mo ago

Should really be some sort of government process and speedy trial in court. Say inside a week. Show a lease or get year in free accommodation by the state. Both sides win. Property owner frees the property and squatter gets free government paid housing for longer period.