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Tesla had a ridiculous lead over everyone and they spaffed it. No new features, no HUD, no dashboard. They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other

Tesla had a ridiculous lead over everyone and they spaffed it. No new features, no HUD, no dashboard. They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other companies have now ripped the software and the iPad, so they have nothing unique. All they had to do was continue to improve the product. They didn’t even try.

mft_ 10mo ago
I' m not defending Tesla for a moment, but I disagree with your take... 1) Wasn't it always inevitable that, once tha large established car manufacturers really started to knuckle down to creating EVs, that Tesla's lead and 'moat' would mostly vanish? They still have some of the most efficient EVs available, and their UI/UX is still one of the best, but of course they'll face compeition, and of course their competitors will try to differentiate in all directions, and especially those that are superficially attractive (and less expensive to deliver) like interior design. 2) Back in his earlier, pre-crazy days, Musk suggested (something along the lines of) that Tesla's goal wasn't to be a huge successful car company, so much as to prove that EVs were viable as everyday cars, and drive a revolution in the car industry. By this measure, they've mostly succeeded. --- Big picture, totally agree that Tesla seems to have lost its way over the past few years, which unsurprisingly correlates (to an outside observer) with Musk's apparent changes in judgement and behaviour, with its consequent impact on Tesla's image and desirability amongst consumers. The Cybertruck turns out to have been a huge misstep, and not having delivered a 'model 2' - i.e. a small mid-sized option - (maybe instead?) is a huge miss.
- trollbridge 10mo ago
  Advantage for Tesla is that the rest of the auto industry has lost their way, too. For example, the infotainment in a brand new, expensive vehicle like a new GM is atrociously bad, unreliable, and slow/clunky to use.
  - nebula8804 9mo ago
    Have you used it? The Equinox EV/LYRIQ has a large OLED screen spanning a lot of the dash and the Android based menu is pretty decent.
    - trollbridge 9mo ago
      Yes, I have. It has the infamous Android delays, and also conked out in the middle of a trip (this was in a renal); had to stop and start the car and re-pair the phone and navigation never worked again. 2025 model year, less than 20k miles. I can get an iPad myself and a GPS myself that don’t have these problems.
- Alconicon 10mo ago
  I would argue that Tesla didn't lose its way, it used it way to get were they are and now you see the deficits of it. They started without all the legacy and worries. Like existing suppliers, existing things, existing image. Fresh market, modern software development etc. brought them a proper market share. Now the olds had to update themselves, which they did and now they are stuck with tesla. But thats it. Tesla doesn't has that much innovation. Plenty of things did not materialize at all.
angott 10mo ago
> They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other companies have now ripped the software and the iPad, so they have nothing unique You are not wrong about Tesla's base models like the 3 and Y being light on traditional 60k car features, but the second part is much more debatable. With the exception of some Chinese car manufacturers, almost no Western car makers have managed to match Tesla's software stack. I can't think of another car brand that makes its own silicon, ships OTA updates weekly, runs an in-house OS that isn't an outdated Android skin, and tightly integrates media, navigation, charging, and energy management all in the same platform. Most legacy automakers still rely on their old infotainment vendors, release update slowly (if at all!), and struggle with fragmented software architectures. Their driver assistance systems are improving very slowly, and they are behind Tesla even for basic features like lane-keep assist. And that's even before getting into self-driving ambitions, where no brand has been able to ship anything similar AFAIK. Rivian and Lucid are closer philosophically and technically, but they're still quite tiny players compared to Tesla, and haven't proven they can execute at Tesla's volume and pricing.
- audunw 10mo ago
  Some other brands rely on Mobileye for driver assistance. It’s clear from demos that Mobileye is on the same level as Tesla, the difference is that the don’t use end users as beta testers. I suspect that when actual full self driving is possible, other car companies won’t be as far behind as you’d think based on the features Tesla has in their cars now.
  - CyanLite2 10mo ago
    They mostly only work on pre-mapped highways. They're also not commercially available. There's currently no other DA other than Tesla's FSD available in the US that will work on city streets and highways.
    - dabraham1248 10mo ago
      I'm going to assert that Tesla's FSD™ does not, in fact work on city streets and highways. Or, if you want to loosely define "work", Ernst Dickmanns had self driving in the 80s, and put in on the autobahn in the 90s. I'd rather define it more tightly as "statistically at least as safe to be in _and_ to be near, as a human driver". Tesla claims to have achieved that, but I don't believe them. That's because the data they report 1) omits a fair bit of critical info, and 2) frequently changes definitions. Both serve to make comparisons difficult. If it was clearly safe, I think they'd put effort into making the comparison transparent. Bear in mind that Musk has been claiming "Full Self-Driving" since at least 2016, and people involved have asserted that he wasn't wrong, he was lying.
thinkingtoilet 10mo ago
I loath Musk and will never buy a Tesla, but your criticisms are strange. I don't want a HUD. I don't want new features. I want as basic a car as possible that goes forward when I press the gas and stops when I press the brakes. I had a 2007 Honda Fit which I still regret getting rid of. I have a new Honda and every single new feature (except for displaying the speed limit, which has it's own problems) is useless at best and dangerous and distracting at worse.
- monooso 10mo ago
  > I want as basic a car as possible that goes forward when I press the gas and stops when I press the brakes. GP was talking about HUD and "new features" in the context of a $60k car. Presumably your desired "basic car" would cost considerably less.
  - thinkingtoilet 10mo ago
    What "new features" are we talking about? What else do you need in a car? Do you complain about "new features" in an expensive bottle of whiskey? Or a nice computer? No, you want the basics done really well and made with the highest of quality.
    - eichin 10mo ago
      When I went from a 2006 mini to a 2021 polestar 2, there were a bunch of things that were either "up in class" or "15 years makes things better" - traction control, non-invasive lane-assist (with invasive options), per-driver (per-keyfob really) seat adjustment memory, charge-aware navigation, radar cruise-control, 360° camera fusion, headlight washers, kick-to-open trunk, interior pre-warm (including seats, as a software upgrade), smart (camera-based) auto-dim of high beams, mirror-retract when parked, mirror tilt when backing up, retractable trailer hitch... little of this is structural, it's just an accumulation of details and attention paid to them.
      - neogodless 10mo ago
joshribakoff 10mo ago
This is purely anecdotal but at the local mall (Stonetown in SF) they are giving out free rides. To me, it looks desperate, and poorly executed. I was even waiting outside shake shack for my order, and the sales person approached me to offer me a test drive unsolicited. While I was waiting, I saw groups of people flicking them off and trolling them. The irony to me - they have paid me $250,000 back for vehicles under lemon law instead of acknowledging and fixing a safety issue in the software, instead labeling it from “bug” to “characteristic”. Now, they’re approaching me outside a shake shack begging me to accept a test drive, and i bet the issue is still not fixed. BMW driver assistance pro may be more limited but it is boring in the ways you want. I was really intent on supporting Tesla, but they refused to work with me when I repeatedly raised the safety issue. They just repeatedly returned the car and said it was an expected characteristic for the car to turn left when I’m turning the wheel right. I suspect they don’t wanna fix the false positive lane departure avoidance because they probably know they would be even more cases of accidental FSD engagement that do result in a collision where it needs to kick in. At the time I was reporting the issue they did not disclose the hidden disabled lane departure state, either.
andreygrehov 10mo ago
I’m looking for a new car. Not a single manufacturer achieved anything similar to what Tesla has achieved. Tesla’s software is so good, that I can’t drive anything else.
- lotsofpulp 10mo ago
  The updated self driving is also very nice, to the point where I would consider it worth paying $100 per month for aging parents or those who otherwise could use a slight guardrail. I might get one for my parents since Waymo is still probably 10 years out from being ubiquitous. Also bizarre to me that only Tesla/Rivian offer dash cam recordings as a standard feature. All the other cars seem to come with cameras, they just choose not to allow the video to be saved?
- moduspol 10mo ago
  The comment you're replying to says other companies have taken the "software" and the "iPad". To genuinely believe that, one must have not spent much time using Tesla's software or "iPad" to compare with competitors. It becomes more and more clear that traditional automakers see software as just another lowest-cost component of the car. I understand VW actually started putting effort into their software, but I haven't heard good things about it. Maybe it'll get better.
  - alphager 10mo ago
    They cancelled that effort. They tried to create their own software company but shuttled that effort and are back on the "integrate the different vendors" bandwagon.
    - moduspol 10mo ago
      Ah. Unfortunate.
- Alconicon 10mo ago
  ? My Ford Mustang Mach-e has great software. It works, is reliable, supports apple and android car. BMW software stack does even more. Where is this coming from? What are the features you are missing? BMW can be remote controled also Mercedes and VW btw.
steeve 10mo ago
Yes but have you heard of the Somali daycare in Minnesota? Also, something something great replacement.
- horns4lyfe 9mo ago
  Did you get lost on your way to Reddit?
elif 10mo ago
No one is within a decade of Tesla. There are no other vehicles that can take you as easily to the grocery store as they can across the country. Buying another brand for me at this point would be like picking up a part time job as a driver. No thank you lol. FSD is all the mote that they need.
- GeorgeTirebiter 10mo ago
  I can't tell if you're joking or serious. I recently rented a tesla on a vacation back east, and the nightmare that is charging cannot be erased. And FSD of course does not work (yet... they've been at it for 10+ years, maybe someday, who knows?). My rented 2025 MY with full self driving could barely keep itself between 2 white-painted lines! I assume this post is a troll, 'no one is within a decade of Tesla' -- are you serious ? Have a look at Rivian, which is preparing to make the Cybertruck even more of a laughing stock.
  - horns4lyfe 9mo ago
    I own a 2023 model Y and have never had charging issues, and use FSD successfully every day.
horns4lyfe 9mo ago
Nobody is even close on software. I’m honestly shocked more software people here don’t appreciate Tesla more for their software efforts. If you’d prefer the traditional automaker route of contracting out software to cheap labor in third world countries then ok, but you’re working against yourself

mft_ 10mo ago

I' m not defending Tesla for a moment, but I disagree with your take... 1) Wasn't it always inevitable that, once tha large established car manufacturers really started to knuckle down to creating EVs, that Tesla's lead and 'moat' would mostly vanish? They still have some of the most efficient EVs available, and their UI/UX is still one of the best, but of course they'll face compeition, and of course their competitors will try to differentiate in all directions, and especially those that are superficially attractive (and less expensive to deliver) like interior design. 2) Back in his earlier, pre-crazy days, Musk suggested (something along the lines of) that Tesla's goal wasn't to be a huge successful car company, so much as to prove that EVs were viable as everyday cars, and drive a revolution in the car industry. By this measure, they've mostly succeeded. --- Big picture, totally agree that Tesla seems to have lost its way over the past few years, which unsurprisingly correlates (to an outside observer) with Musk's apparent changes in judgement and behaviour, with its consequent impact on Tesla's image and desirability amongst consumers. The Cybertruck turns out to have been a huge misstep, and not having delivered a 'model 2' - i.e. a small mid-sized option - (maybe instead?) is a huge miss.

trollbridge 10mo ago
Advantage for Tesla is that the rest of the auto industry has lost their way, too. For example, the infotainment in a brand new, expensive vehicle like a new GM is atrociously bad, unreliable, and slow/clunky to use.
- nebula8804 9mo ago
  Have you used it? The Equinox EV/LYRIQ has a large OLED screen spanning a lot of the dash and the Android based menu is pretty decent.
  - trollbridge 9mo ago
    Yes, I have. It has the infamous Android delays, and also conked out in the middle of a trip (this was in a renal); had to stop and start the car and re-pair the phone and navigation never worked again. 2025 model year, less than 20k miles. I can get an iPad myself and a GPS myself that don’t have these problems.
Alconicon 10mo ago
I would argue that Tesla didn't lose its way, it used it way to get were they are and now you see the deficits of it. They started without all the legacy and worries. Like existing suppliers, existing things, existing image. Fresh market, modern software development etc. brought them a proper market share. Now the olds had to update themselves, which they did and now they are stuck with tesla. But thats it. Tesla doesn't has that much innovation. Plenty of things did not materialize at all.

angott 10mo ago

> They want 60k for cars which have nothing in them. Other companies have now ripped the software and the iPad, so they have nothing unique You are not wrong about Tesla's base models like the 3 and Y being light on traditional 60k car features, but the second part is much more debatable. With the exception of some Chinese car manufacturers, almost no Western car makers have managed to match Tesla's software stack. I can't think of another car brand that makes its own silicon, ships OTA updates weekly, runs an in-house OS that isn't an outdated Android skin, and tightly integrates media, navigation, charging, and energy management all in the same platform. Most legacy automakers still rely on their old infotainment vendors, release update slowly (if at all!), and struggle with fragmented software architectures. Their driver assistance systems are improving very slowly, and they are behind Tesla even for basic features like lane-keep assist. And that's even before getting into self-driving ambitions, where no brand has been able to ship anything similar AFAIK. Rivian and Lucid are closer philosophically and technically, but they're still quite tiny players compared to Tesla, and haven't proven they can execute at Tesla's volume and pricing.

audunw 10mo ago
Some other brands rely on Mobileye for driver assistance. It’s clear from demos that Mobileye is on the same level as Tesla, the difference is that the don’t use end users as beta testers. I suspect that when actual full self driving is possible, other car companies won’t be as far behind as you’d think based on the features Tesla has in their cars now.
- CyanLite2 10mo ago
  They mostly only work on pre-mapped highways. They're also not commercially available. There's currently no other DA other than Tesla's FSD available in the US that will work on city streets and highways.
  - dabraham1248 10mo ago
    I'm going to assert that Tesla's FSD™ does not, in fact work on city streets and highways. Or, if you want to loosely define "work", Ernst Dickmanns had self driving in the 80s, and put in on the autobahn in the 90s. I'd rather define it more tightly as "statistically at least as safe to be in _and_ to be near, as a human driver". Tesla claims to have achieved that, but I don't believe them. That's because the data they report 1) omits a fair bit of critical info, and 2) frequently changes definitions. Both serve to make comparisons difficult. If it was clearly safe, I think they'd put effort into making the comparison transparent. Bear in mind that Musk has been claiming "Full Self-Driving" since at least 2016, and people involved have asserted that he wasn't wrong, he was lying.

thinkingtoilet 10mo ago

I loath Musk and will never buy a Tesla, but your criticisms are strange. I don't want a HUD. I don't want new features. I want as basic a car as possible that goes forward when I press the gas and stops when I press the brakes. I had a 2007 Honda Fit which I still regret getting rid of. I have a new Honda and every single new feature (except for displaying the speed limit, which has it's own problems) is useless at best and dangerous and distracting at worse.

monooso 10mo ago
> I want as basic a car as possible that goes forward when I press the gas and stops when I press the brakes. GP was talking about HUD and "new features" in the context of a $60k car. Presumably your desired "basic car" would cost considerably less.
- thinkingtoilet 10mo ago
  What "new features" are we talking about? What else do you need in a car? Do you complain about "new features" in an expensive bottle of whiskey? Or a nice computer? No, you want the basics done really well and made with the highest of quality.
  - eichin 10mo ago
    When I went from a 2006 mini to a 2021 polestar 2, there were a bunch of things that were either "up in class" or "15 years makes things better" - traction control, non-invasive lane-assist (with invasive options), per-driver (per-keyfob really) seat adjustment memory, charge-aware navigation, radar cruise-control, 360° camera fusion, headlight washers, kick-to-open trunk, interior pre-warm (including seats, as a software upgrade), smart (camera-based) auto-dim of high beams, mirror-retract when parked, mirror tilt when backing up, retractable trailer hitch... little of this is structural, it's just an accumulation of details and attention paid to them.
    - neogodless 10mo ago

joshribakoff 10mo ago

This is purely anecdotal but at the local mall (Stonetown in SF) they are giving out free rides. To me, it looks desperate, and poorly executed. I was even waiting outside shake shack for my order, and the sales person approached me to offer me a test drive unsolicited. While I was waiting, I saw groups of people flicking them off and trolling them. The irony to me - they have paid me $250,000 back for vehicles under lemon law instead of acknowledging and fixing a safety issue in the software, instead labeling it from “bug” to “characteristic”. Now, they’re approaching me outside a shake shack begging me to accept a test drive, and i bet the issue is still not fixed. BMW driver assistance pro may be more limited but it is boring in the ways you want. I was really intent on supporting Tesla, but they refused to work with me when I repeatedly raised the safety issue. They just repeatedly returned the car and said it was an expected characteristic for the car to turn left when I’m turning the wheel right. I suspect they don’t wanna fix the false positive lane departure avoidance because they probably know they would be even more cases of accidental FSD engagement that do result in a collision where it needs to kick in. At the time I was reporting the issue they did not disclose the hidden disabled lane departure state, either.

andreygrehov 10mo ago

I’m looking for a new car. Not a single manufacturer achieved anything similar to what Tesla has achieved. Tesla’s software is so good, that I can’t drive anything else.

lotsofpulp 10mo ago
The updated self driving is also very nice, to the point where I would consider it worth paying $100 per month for aging parents or those who otherwise could use a slight guardrail. I might get one for my parents since Waymo is still probably 10 years out from being ubiquitous. Also bizarre to me that only Tesla/Rivian offer dash cam recordings as a standard feature. All the other cars seem to come with cameras, they just choose not to allow the video to be saved?
moduspol 10mo ago
The comment you're replying to says other companies have taken the "software" and the "iPad". To genuinely believe that, one must have not spent much time using Tesla's software or "iPad" to compare with competitors. It becomes more and more clear that traditional automakers see software as just another lowest-cost component of the car. I understand VW actually started putting effort into their software, but I haven't heard good things about it. Maybe it'll get better.
- alphager 10mo ago
  They cancelled that effort. They tried to create their own software company but shuttled that effort and are back on the "integrate the different vendors" bandwagon.
  - moduspol 10mo ago
    Ah. Unfortunate.
Alconicon 10mo ago
? My Ford Mustang Mach-e has great software. It works, is reliable, supports apple and android car. BMW software stack does even more. Where is this coming from? What are the features you are missing? BMW can be remote controled also Mercedes and VW btw.

steeve 10mo ago

Yes but have you heard of the Somali daycare in Minnesota? Also, something something great replacement.

horns4lyfe 9mo ago
Did you get lost on your way to Reddit?

elif 10mo ago

No one is within a decade of Tesla. There are no other vehicles that can take you as easily to the grocery store as they can across the country. Buying another brand for me at this point would be like picking up a part time job as a driver. No thank you lol. FSD is all the mote that they need.

GeorgeTirebiter 10mo ago
I can't tell if you're joking or serious. I recently rented a tesla on a vacation back east, and the nightmare that is charging cannot be erased. And FSD of course does not work (yet... they've been at it for 10+ years, maybe someday, who knows?). My rented 2025 MY with full self driving could barely keep itself between 2 white-painted lines! I assume this post is a troll, 'no one is within a decade of Tesla' -- are you serious ? Have a look at Rivian, which is preparing to make the Cybertruck even more of a laughing stock.
- horns4lyfe 9mo ago
  I own a 2023 model Y and have never had charging issues, and use FSD successfully every day.

horns4lyfe 9mo ago

Nobody is even close on software. I’m honestly shocked more software people here don’t appreciate Tesla more for their software efforts. If you’d prefer the traditional automaker route of contracting out software to cheap labor in third world countries then ok, but you’re working against yourself