3 ms·

Biggest pros: - cheaper and ever more abundant inputs - significantly lower thermal runaway problems - much higher theoretical kW/kg (but worse kWh/m3) - mu

by _aavaa_ 10mo ago

Biggest pros: - cheaper and ever more abundant inputs - significantly lower thermal runaway problems - much higher theoretical kW/kg (but worse kWh/m3) - much higher cycle life

metalman 10mo ago
-40 to +70°c operating range means that for most locations and uses, the batteries will not need heating or cooling, not sure about ventilation, but if that is also unnessesary then incorporating the batteries intofull systems becomes much easier for static and mobile uses. also, as they are cheaper per kw/hr than anything else, there will be an evolution towards higher voltages, especialy for home storage ,off and grid tied, as conductor sizes can be smaller in all components, bringing costs down accross the board, pv, charge controllers, inverters will.all benifit, and if say 240v became standard, then charge contollers, inverters and pv would all run at standard domestic voltage and be significantly more efficient for round trip energy storage and use. we are on the cusp of whole lifestyle energy supplys bieng generated on a house roof and stored on site, and/or sold into the grid.
- chii 10mo ago
  > not sure about ventilation i assume you'd always need ventilation, because if it is enclosed, the produced heat will just accumulate and go above 70c eventually. But ventilation is much cheaper than heating/cooling (and can be a passive vent rather than anything active - thus taking zero power to run except for maintenance/replacement).
koverstreet 10mo ago
Where does the higher theoretical kWH/kg come from? That's big news.
- _aavaa_ 10mo ago
  Sorry I had that backwards.
newyankee 10mo ago
I think they can probably win the energy storage game when scaled. I know the voltage range is a serious issue but I am guessing CATL itself might want to divert LFP/ LMFP chemistries to vehicles and use this for energy storage. People are probably oversimplifying some costs (like 10-20$/kwh material costs) while at the same time underestimating the fact that if it can be delivered internationally at < 60$/kwh in the long run, it is a win for energy storage. For some reasons I have never seen LFP in storage projects going below 200-300$/kwh all costs considered even though cell/pack costs claim in China have always been 50-60$/kwh

by _aavaa_ 10mo ago

Biggest pros: - cheaper and ever more abundant inputs - significantly lower thermal runaway problems - much higher theoretical kW/kg (but worse kWh/m3) - much higher cycle life

metalman 10mo ago

-40 to +70°c operating range means that for most locations and uses, the batteries will not need heating or cooling, not sure about ventilation, but if that is also unnessesary then incorporating the batteries intofull systems becomes much easier for static and mobile uses. also, as they are cheaper per kw/hr than anything else, there will be an evolution towards higher voltages, especialy for home storage ,off and grid tied, as conductor sizes can be smaller in all components, bringing costs down accross the board, pv, charge controllers, inverters will.all benifit, and if say 240v became standard, then charge contollers, inverters and pv would all run at standard domestic voltage and be significantly more efficient for round trip energy storage and use. we are on the cusp of whole lifestyle energy supplys bieng generated on a house roof and stored on site, and/or sold into the grid.

chii 10mo ago
> not sure about ventilation i assume you'd always need ventilation, because if it is enclosed, the produced heat will just accumulate and go above 70c eventually. But ventilation is much cheaper than heating/cooling (and can be a passive vent rather than anything active - thus taking zero power to run except for maintenance/replacement).

koverstreet 10mo ago

Where does the higher theoretical kWH/kg come from? That's big news.

_aavaa_ 10mo ago
Sorry I had that backwards.

newyankee 10mo ago

I think they can probably win the energy storage game when scaled. I know the voltage range is a serious issue but I am guessing CATL itself might want to divert LFP/ LMFP chemistries to vehicles and use this for energy storage. People are probably oversimplifying some costs (like 10-20$/kwh material costs) while at the same time underestimating the fact that if it can be delivered internationally at < 60$/kwh in the long run, it is a win for energy storage. For some reasons I have never seen LFP in storage projects going below 200-300$/kwh all costs considered even though cell/pack costs claim in China have always been 50-60$/kwh