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At what point is it fair to call the list something other than ‘predictions’
by 1121redblackgo 9mo ago
At what point is it fair to call the list something other than ‘predictions’
- mr_mitm 9mo agoAccording to the article, a court would call this "corporate puffery", but to me it's nothing but lies and grifting.
- roryirvine 9mo agoTo be "mere puff", the claim needs to be so obviously untrue that no reasonable bystander would suppose it to be meant literally. But Musk often acts as if he does actually intend to be taken seriously. In the case of the current story, consider the marketing resources Tesla have poured into their previous "Battery Day" events and look at the press reaction; it's clear that at least some people believed that the claims stacked up. A quick search of the hn archives for "4680" shows a similar picture. Yes, there were always some sceptical voices, but they were often shouted down as being from people motivated by an anti-Elon grudge. Nevertheless, the sentiment tended to be overwhelmingly positive with many posters actively reinforcing the hype. Now, whether or not a self-selecting sample of hn posters can be seen as "reasonable bystanders" is certainly debatable - but it does seem that we're getting close to the point where Musk is going to have to start branding those who believe him as being exceptionally gullible in order to escape a charge of misleading advertising.
- vrosas 9mo agos/Predictions/Ketamine-and-adderall-fueled ramblings
- spwa4 9mo agoI think they mean grift or even fraud, since they were definitely meant to attract investment. Now excuse me while I go check on where my 2016 full-self-driving Tesla car. It was supposed to pick me up 9 years ago, something must have happened.
- hshdhdhj4444 9mo agoI still don’t understand how they haven’t been sued for the hundreds of millions they took as a deposit for a new Roadster…8 years ago!
- woleium 9mo agoWell the government was in the process of doing so, but somehow he seems to have doge’d it.
- andsoitis 9mo ago> I still don’t understand how they haven’t been sued for the hundreds of millions they took as a deposit for a new Roadster…8 years ago! Because you can cancel your reservation and get your deposited refunded. See terms at Tesla.com
- LtdJorge 9mo agoSame site as the OP has an article stating Tesla makes it difficult, and if you put 50k in 8 years ago and obtain 50k now, I think you lost a lot of money. I have no opinion on the process itself though, I don’t know enough about Tesla as I’m only interested in the engineering, just wanted to point out the inflation losses.
- locknitpicker 9mo ago> if you put 50k in 8 years ago and obtain 50k now, I think you lost a lot of money. This is a textbook sunk cost fallacy.
- idiotsecant 9mo agoI am curious - are you familiar with inflation?
- locknitpicker 9mo ago
- effdee 9mo agoThere's a slash missing at the end.
- mmmm2 9mo agoPump and dump scheme?
- eru 9mo agoWhat evidence is there for the 'dump' part? Mr Musk is a strange fellow indeed, but he's not guilty of all the vices and sins. Just plenty enough of them.
- mannykannot 9mo agoThat’s a fair point, but a combination of “fake it ‘til you make it” together with extracting massive “compensation” before you actually make it amounts to pretty much the same thing.
- eru 9mo agoHow is it the 'same thing'? Especially if he gets his comp largely in the same supposedly overvalued stock?
- _heimdall 9mo agoHow is that different from any other CEO, especially of publicly traded companies? CEOs are constantly making claims and promises that are aspirational at best, their compensation isn't held until all promises are reached.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- nurettin 9mo agohttps://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/05/31/tesla-investor-accuses-elon-musk-of-75-billion-of-insider-trades/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoniopequenoiv/2024/05/31/tes... > Musk sold 19.5 million Tesla shares worth about $3.95 billion in November 2022 I mean sure it is his to sell, but how is that different?
- 9mo ago
- rchaud 9mo ago"Tech Optimism"
- cosmicgadget 9mo ago"Forward-looking statements" aka legal stock pumping. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-looking_statement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward-looking_statement)
- adonovan 9mo agoPredicting is easy. Predicting correctly less so.
- Jare 9mo agoWhen you are making predictions about what you are going to do, "correctly" is spelled "honestly".
- yibg 9mo agoI guess when people stop believing them. Until then, they're words from a visionary that's building the future, who can get some things wrong / be over zealous etc. When people stop believing him, they become lies.
- ChrisGreenHeur 9mo agoA statement is a lie if the person saying it knows it to be false. Not if the person hearing it disbelieves it.
- sdoering 9mo agoImagine me standing next to the fence of the White House, calling the Meta Office. "I am calling from the White House", while technically true would be a lie, as my intent would be to make the other person believe something that isn't true, that I would be calling in some kind of official role. So the statement does not necessarily be false to be a lie - if the intent is to deceive.
- epolanski 9mo agoThose are borderline lies that deceived both customers and investors.
- spiderfarmer 9mo agoPut that on your resumé and you'll easily land a cushy job in Washington.
- locknitpicker 9mo ago> Put that on your resumé and you'll easily land a cushy job in Washington. I think you have it backwards. The entire tech bro scene reeks of fraud schemes, and the most successful ones seem to be pulled into all kinds of government schemes as well.
- nkrisc 9mo agoAfter the first few some responsibility begins shifting to those still believing him.
- b00ty4breakfast 9mo agoInvestors know what's up. They want number to go up, therefore they "believe" him and the number goes up. The map precedes the territory