6 ms·

> you’re leasing them For the duration of your life, to be fair.

by SecretDreams 10mo ago

lotsofpulp 10mo ago
For the duration of the businesses’ life.
Thegn 10mo ago
For the duration of gaben’s life, to be fair. Beyond that there be dragons.
paxys 10mo ago
No, for the duration of whenever Steam decides to say "fuck you".
- mariusor 10mo ago
  Which is the same as what can happen to GOG if you don't have the files backed up. And if you do happen to have them backed up, is there such a large difference between having the installer vs the full game installation stored?
  - paxys 10mo ago
    Yes there is a difference. Steam sells you a license that can be revoked at any time. The games have DRM, and rely on cloud servers to authenticate you. If you turn your internet off they will all stop working after a certain period, even if fully downloaded. And if Steam or the DRM owner goes out of business you will end up with nothing. If you buy and download something from GOG, it is yours. You can still play it in the next millenium as long as you have suitable hardware or an emulator.
    - candiddevmike 10mo ago
      Not all steam games have DRM
      - badsectoracula 10mo ago
        This is true but you don't know ahead of time before you buy a game, you have to gamble on it being the case or not (i've found that while some lists exist in places like pcgamingwiki, they tend to be both very incomplete and often wrong). Usually indie games tend to be DRM-free though, so if an indie game isn't available on GOG or Zoom Platform (another DRM-free store), i end up buying on Steam.
        Jach 10mo ago
        So long as it's easy to find out after buying, this isn't a real barrier, since you can just refund it if it doesn't meet your standards.
    - mariusor 10mo ago
      > The games have DRM, and rely on cloud servers to authenticate you. That is not true as a global rule. Game developers can release fully independent versions of their games even on steam.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 10mo ago
        They can. Do they? Statistically?
        mariusor 10mo ago
        If I am a person interested in this specific thing (backing up my games) I would for sure check. Wouldn't you?
        Uvix 10mo ago
        I would but since there's no way to know before buying, all games on Steam need to be treated as having DRM and not supporting backups.
        paxys 10mo ago
        There's also no way to know after buying. Games you own and have installed can be automatically updated in the background with new DRM.
- dangus 10mo ago
  Which is basically never. They have no incentive to do that except for extreme circumstances, and they have all the leverage in the world over game publishers. Delisted games tend to stay in your library for redownload. I never understood the cynicism for digital media, it’s been multiple decades now and the model clearly works. Obviously I prefer zero DRM but it’s also not a hard line requirement for me personally.
  - paxys 10mo ago
    Ever bought anything from MSN Music? Yahoo Music? Desura? Microsoft eBook Store? Walmart MP3s? Anything using Adobe Content Server? MusicNet? CinemaNow? UltraViolet? It is laughable to think that digital media "clearly works". Companies shut down and stores shutter all the time. In most cases there is no recourse for customers, because – surprise – you didn't actually own the rights to what you bought, just a revocable license. You have to be pretty young and/or naive to think that this can't eventually happen to Steam as well. And even if you fully trust Steam to stick around and keep its word, digital licensing means you can still get screwed. For example - if the publisher's license to in-game music expires, the game will automatically be updated to remove all the tracks (e.g. GTA Vice City and San Andreas). For larger issues and conflicts the game might be removed entirely (e.g. Spec Ops: The Line). Or the publisher might decide to just switch off the DRM servers, even for single player games (e.g. The Crew). Outside of gaming there are countless examples of publishers "upgrading" music tracks you own to different versions or censoring/altering content of books you own. The only recourse to all this is to buy and store DRM-free versions of your media.
    - stodor89 10mo ago
      > "buy" Hozier's album > change countries > oh, you own this album for Bulgaria, but not for the US, so you can no longer play it
      - tart-lemonade 10mo ago
        Region-locked physical media (and before explicit region locking, PAL vs NTSC vs SECAM vs variants like PAL-M) also have this problem to some extent.

> you’re leasing them For the duration of your life, to be fair.

lotsofpulp 10mo ago

For the duration of the businesses’ life.

Thegn 10mo ago

For the duration of gaben’s life, to be fair. Beyond that there be dragons.

paxys 10mo ago

No, for the duration of whenever Steam decides to say "fuck you".

mariusor 10mo ago
Which is the same as what can happen to GOG if you don't have the files backed up. And if you do happen to have them backed up, is there such a large difference between having the installer vs the full game installation stored?
- paxys 10mo ago
  Yes there is a difference. Steam sells you a license that can be revoked at any time. The games have DRM, and rely on cloud servers to authenticate you. If you turn your internet off they will all stop working after a certain period, even if fully downloaded. And if Steam or the DRM owner goes out of business you will end up with nothing. If you buy and download something from GOG, it is yours. You can still play it in the next millenium as long as you have suitable hardware or an emulator.
  - candiddevmike 10mo ago
    Not all steam games have DRM
    - badsectoracula 10mo ago
      This is true but you don't know ahead of time before you buy a game, you have to gamble on it being the case or not (i've found that while some lists exist in places like pcgamingwiki, they tend to be both very incomplete and often wrong). Usually indie games tend to be DRM-free though, so if an indie game isn't available on GOG or Zoom Platform (another DRM-free store), i end up buying on Steam.
      - Jach 10mo ago
        So long as it's easy to find out after buying, this isn't a real barrier, since you can just refund it if it doesn't meet your standards.
  - mariusor 10mo ago
    > The games have DRM, and rely on cloud servers to authenticate you. That is not true as a global rule. Game developers can release fully independent versions of their games even on steam.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 10mo ago
      They can. Do they? Statistically?
      - mariusor 10mo ago
        If I am a person interested in this specific thing (backing up my games) I would for sure check. Wouldn't you?
        Uvix 10mo ago
        I would but since there's no way to know before buying, all games on Steam need to be treated as having DRM and not supporting backups.
        paxys 10mo ago
        There's also no way to know after buying. Games you own and have installed can be automatically updated in the background with new DRM.
dangus 10mo ago
Which is basically never. They have no incentive to do that except for extreme circumstances, and they have all the leverage in the world over game publishers. Delisted games tend to stay in your library for redownload. I never understood the cynicism for digital media, it’s been multiple decades now and the model clearly works. Obviously I prefer zero DRM but it’s also not a hard line requirement for me personally.
- paxys 10mo ago
  Ever bought anything from MSN Music? Yahoo Music? Desura? Microsoft eBook Store? Walmart MP3s? Anything using Adobe Content Server? MusicNet? CinemaNow? UltraViolet? It is laughable to think that digital media "clearly works". Companies shut down and stores shutter all the time. In most cases there is no recourse for customers, because – surprise – you didn't actually own the rights to what you bought, just a revocable license. You have to be pretty young and/or naive to think that this can't eventually happen to Steam as well. And even if you fully trust Steam to stick around and keep its word, digital licensing means you can still get screwed. For example - if the publisher's license to in-game music expires, the game will automatically be updated to remove all the tracks (e.g. GTA Vice City and San Andreas). For larger issues and conflicts the game might be removed entirely (e.g. Spec Ops: The Line). Or the publisher might decide to just switch off the DRM servers, even for single player games (e.g. The Crew). Outside of gaming there are countless examples of publishers "upgrading" music tracks you own to different versions or censoring/altering content of books you own. The only recourse to all this is to buy and store DRM-free versions of your media.
  - stodor89 10mo ago
    > "buy" Hozier's album > change countries > oh, you own this album for Bulgaria, but not for the US, so you can no longer play it
    - tart-lemonade 10mo ago
      Region-locked physical media (and before explicit region locking, PAL vs NTSC vs SECAM vs variants like PAL-M) also have this problem to some extent.