13 ms·

I'm a laptop weirdo and that's why I like my new Framework 13

292 points by todsacerdoti 10mo ago

phoronixrly 10mo ago
[flagged]
- eviks 10mo ago
  Write better notes, you've missed all the more important reasons!
  - phoronixrly 10mo ago
    The rest of them are just as fastidious if not more.
    - eviks 10mo ago
      They aren't, otherwise you wouldn't have to pick the lightest of them and pick only 1
      - phoronixrly 10mo ago
        The lightest one? What about the display colour mismatch, which is literally one of the first things I calibrate away when I get a new laptop, even on macbooks? Imagine moaning about two displays from completely different manufacturers and production dates showing different colours... Or maybe the auto-dimming feature which can be disabled by software? Or the touchpad which is 'too sensitive when scrolling'....
        eviks 10mo ago
        > first things I calibrate away How? Do you expect every user to have an easier access to color calibration hardware devices to fix this issue compared to a software fix they could find after some googling??? > auto-dimming feature which can be disabled by software He also disabled the led via software, so you failed to point out why this one is easier > the touchpad which is 'too sensitive when scrolling'.... How is this lighter? Touching the touchpad is a very frequent action, so the deficiency will affect you every day, and you can’t fix it by looking up some systemd service unlike the LED, and you can’t put a sticker on it to dim it. So how is an unsolvable frequent issue more trivial than a solvable one?
    - bayindirh 10mo ago
      Lowest screen brightness and color correctness of the said screen are not trivial issues. I used to work in a dimly illuminated room during late nights, and any screen which can't do low-light properly is blinding. Color correctness, even if you don't hit "calibrated pipeline" levels is extremely useful for seeing and/or editing photos. Even if you're doing this casually.
- blauditore 10mo ago
  Such details also annoy me, but this one would be very easy to fix with a semi-transparent sticker, or a marker.
  - Krssst 10mo ago
    The LED is the lining of the power button so it's not so trivial to fix without affecting the power button itself. It's quite an annoyance too I think.
    - nh2 10mo ago
      Thin tape
      - bayindirh 10mo ago
        Smudged adhesive, sticky button, a dislocated tape, dirt, ugliness, etc.
  - bayindirh 10mo ago
    If I'm buying a premium machine, I don't expect and want to mod it with $3 tape and ¢50 markers. It's like buying a premium car and installing an aftermarket instrument cluster because the OEM one is too bright at its lowest setting.
    - blauditore 10mo ago
      I agree, but reality is often different, even for cars. Sometimes because of incompetence, sometimes because of dark patterns. Many newer cars do have space for putting your phone somewhere on the middle console, but it's arranged in ways to make it impossible to place your phone in a way that would make it usable for navigation. Why? Because they desparately want you to use their own navigation setup (which probably costs extra too).
      - bayindirh 10mo ago
        If we exclude a Dacia which lacked a screen and a radio, all the cars I have rented in the last three years had Android Auto and Apple CarPlay built in. Even though my phone was tucked there somewhere, I always used my phone's maps and other features while driving via the USB cable or wirelessly. And, that wasn't half bad even. Did phone calls, used maps, listened to some music. Got the job done pretty smoothly.
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
ganmet 10mo ago
[dead]
999900000999 10mo ago
>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded both of those. It's a newer model with an RTX GPU. I think framework has potential, but it's going to be a decade to see how things pan out. Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? So far what I'm seeing is a laptop brand which charges between 50% and 100% more with strange customer support issues and a limited service network. If you're thinking about reducing waste , buy a refurbished Thinkpad.
- newsclues 10mo ago
  You can buy a new mainboard for a framework…
- simonh 10mo ago
  Or buy an up-specced conventional laptop with a ton more storage and RAM to start with for the same price. Get your upgrades in first at no extra cost. If you're getting a Framework with the top specs and can't get a competing laptop at higher spec cheaper, I can see the argument that you might benefit from the extra upgradability headroom. However that almost certainly means a mainboard upgrade, and I'd be concerned about the thermals of a current chassis with a hypothetical future mainboard.
  - chocochunks 10mo ago
    Until recently with the recent madness it was almost always cheaper to buy a base model then upgrade RAM and storage yourself.
- blauditore 10mo ago
  In terms of hardware, there shouldn't be too many surprises. People have been doing this with desktop computers for ages, so it's known what it means to maintain and upgrade 10+ years old computers. I have one (desktop) that I'm using regularly, and did a few minor upgrades over the years. Of course, warranty and support quality is a different question.
- kllrnohj 10mo ago
zerof1l 10mo ago
To me, the biggest appeal of the Framework laptop is that I can repair it myself and buy OEM parts directly. I currently own a Lenovo Legion laptop. Still, a very powerful machine, but the screen now has a spot in the middle with multiple dead pixels, the topcoat on the trackpad is peeling off, and the main body has spots where palms rest. I'd happily buy replacement parts and install them, but I can't.
- BoredPositron 10mo ago
  I don't understand the argument you can buy Lenovo OEM parts pretty easily? Even if something is not available through the pcparts site I ordered a replacement display via support. https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/parts-lookup https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/parts-lookup
  - tecoholic 10mo ago
    Yeah! I am also surprised. I have a lenovo from 2015 that's gotten it's wifi card, power IC, RAM - all replaced at some point for very cheap across multiple cities in India. And all this is on a Ideapad. One of their budget "professional" laptops, not even a Thinkpad. While I understand what Framework is doing and the repairability aspect, somehow this conversation always seems to make it seem Laptops are similar to Ipads or something. It's not.
- Esophagus4 10mo ago
  Can you buy a cheap donor laptop and strip it for parts?
haritha-j 10mo ago
I was on the market earlier this year snd I really wanted a framework to make sense. But it doesn’t. By my math, I could get two comparable laptops for the price of the framework, and the flexibility to get a second one with newer specs a few years down made it a bad deal for me. But if you aren’t strapped for cash and appreciate the sustainability, then it’s appealing. For me, a slightly greener laptop isn’t a good enough value proposition. Plus I prefer intel for TB support for an egpu.
- kllrnohj 10mo ago
  What were you comparing against? When I bought my framework it didn't really have a price premium to it relatively to comparable laptops. The main compromise was the thicker chassis and fewer options in terms of things like premium displays. > Plus I prefer intel for TB support for an egpu. lol you and nobody else prefer Intel in a laptop these days. But FYI framework has TB support on their Intel skus and AMD has USB 4 (aka, thunderbolt 3++)
  - haritha-j 10mo ago
    I didn't want to take any risks wrt the egpu support because with an egpu there's already a whole lot of unknowns, so wanted to play it safe with proper TB support. It's a bit of a niche requirement though, so I get that other people may not care. But aside from that I just wanted a basic cheap and light laptop. I got an Acer for £500 on sale with a 2nd gen intel chip. Despite the hate intel gets, their 2nd gen chips are actually really good in terms of battery life. If I spec a comparable laptop right now on Framework, it's around £1400, even for 1st gen intel. Plus the Acer came with a lovely OLED screen, which the framework doesn't seem to have, as you mentioned.
  - yaro330 10mo ago
    AMD USB4 is a joke. Every unplug is a gamble with amdgpu driver, you might get a working system, you might not, same for suspend-resume cycles.
eviks 10mo ago
> Did I do anything productive or meaningful with it? Absolutely not. > I could finally watch 480 YouTube videos instead of 360 What’s meaningless about this big upgrade in quality? So with that and the misconceptions like "You can't change the RAM /SSD" (you can, but for a smaller set of laptops than before), the thesis is rather muddy (unless you literally plan a custom printed snacks tray, but even then other laptops have pluggable side bays, so could also plug in there?)
- nfriedly 10mo ago
  I'm guessing that the author is comparing it to their their M1 MacBook Pro, which has soldered in RAM and an Apple proprietary SSD, that is much more difficult to replace than a standard one. Many laptops do still have replaceable RAM and SSDs, but it's not a sure thing these days.
markus_zhang 10mo ago
I’d like to read from someone who has at least 5 years of experience with Framework. New stuffs are always interesting. But I prefer something that can last for 5 plus years. Framework afaik does not have long term guarantees which is a concern.
- kllrnohj 10mo ago
  Framework as a company is only 5 years old, but they've already done several generations of upgrade parts (including webcam, keyboard, display, mainboards, etc...) and have large availability of repair/replacement parts. So unless their parts are uniquely bad in that they randomly fail after 5 years, it seems pretty clear that they are delivering on the long term ownership goals?
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]
- washadjeffmad 10mo ago
  I think that's a reasonable point - is there anyone doing "State of My Framework" reports? It's hard to know how true their claim of timelessness through upgrades and repairs is without that.
tovej 10mo ago
[flagged]
- patrickaljord 10mo ago
  Omarchy and DHH are great, nice to see framework supporting them. hyprland is amazing too.
  - tovej 10mo ago
    Omarchy is a thin set of vibecoded shell scripts on top of arch linux, and DHH is a right-wing weirdo. It certainly strikes me as odd that a company like framework would choose to support Omarchy so loudly as they did, and then refuse to comment on it.
washadjeffmad 10mo ago
Relevant to "I'm returning my Framework Laptop" from a day or two ago (500+ comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 I think the Framework model (OTC/commodity parts + mainboard) is neat, but what Beelink and others in the MiniPC space are doing is much more useful and compelling for someone who needs a modern, extensible system. My work doesn't require a lot of local compute (or repairs), so there's nothing really a Framework offers that I'm not already getting on a 5 year old $150 4GB Chromebook.
- mixmastamyk 10mo ago
  What is beelink doing?
myself248 10mo ago
Oh, I did magnificent things to my old Toughbook CF-17 / CF-m34. (It ended up as a franken-puter with parts of both.) First: Remove the internal CDPD wireless modem, remove the internal 56k POTS modem/10/100 Ethernet combo card. Wire the TTL-level UART from the CDPD port over to the RJ11 jack so I could now hack on embedded devices using a simple RJ11-to-bare-wires cable. Second: The modem/ethernet card removal freed up the MiniPCI slot. Obtain a MiniPCI-to-USB2.0 card (4 downstream ports), and desolder the tall headers (it was meant for embedded machines with more internal space). Then verrrry carefully desolder the machine's external USB1.1 port pins from the mobo, and wire them over to one of the USB2.0 host ports. (Ground stayed, but D+/D-/Vbus moved.) Ta-daa, faster external devices. This is the only bit I seem to have a photo of: https://flickr.com/photos/myself248/255205625/ https://flickr.com/photos/myself248/255205625/ Third: Carve out some stiffening ribs from under the palm-rest, shuck a USB-Bluetooth adapter, and mount it in there. The palm-rest being plastic means this puts the radio outside the magnesium shell, but still "internal" from an ergonomic perspective. Sneak some wires past the touchpad opening and solder them to the now-freed-up USB1.1 host port on the mobo, since bluetooth doesn't need 480Mbps. Fourth: Shuck a 2GB USB flash drive and wire it to another internal USB2.0 port, and run EBoostr, a third-party implementation of Readyboost for WinXP, which gave flash-cache functionality for severely RAM-limited machines like mine (192MB mobo max, sadly!). Tuck it up by the RAM, ironically, because there's plenty of room up there. Fifth: Shuck a USB2.0-GigE adapter (one with separate magnetics and jack, leave the magnetics but remove the jack because it's too tall, also remove the USB port), and wire it to yet a third internal USB2.0 port. Wire the Ethernet side out to the RJ45 jack freed up by the 10/100 card removal. The speed boost from 100Mbps to 480Mbps (GigE bottlenecked by USB2.0) isn't nothing, but the real benefit is that GigE is Auto-MDIX so I never have to carry a crossover cable, and that's worth it all by itself. Sixth: Shuck a USB-Wifi dongle, and wire it to the fourth and final internal USB2.0 port. Do the world's hairiest coax splice to the CDPD modem's antenna lead, so the 2.4GHz RF now goes out to the 800MHz-tuned antenna mounted on the screen. Split the antenna open and trim the active elements to 1/3 their length, raising the resonant frequency accordingly. Without access to a VNA at the time, this was as good as I could get, and it worked just fine. At that point, it was pretty much the perfect laptop, except for the brutally-limited RAM, which eventually forced its obsolescence as browsers bloated without bound. I used it heavily during 2006-07, and to this day I still miss that perfect little keyboard.
jokoon 10mo ago
Bought a thinkpad L450 10 years ago for about 900 euros. No GPU, which probably increased its lifespan. Replaced its HDD with a SSD. Apart from thinkpads and maybe framework, I don't think there is any other reliable laptop brand with reasonable prices. I was talking with my mother about buying jeans pants that would last for a long time, and a 200 euros jeans would have holes on its 6th year or something. Everything is built to last "just long enough".
systemtest 10mo ago
I work international (somewhat of a digital nomad) so perhaps I’m an outlier in my usage. I have an M1 MacBook Pro that I bought new at release. I can’t replace the memory or storage. But so far I didn’t need to do that. In case it breaks, I walk to my nearby electronics store and purchase a new MacBook Pro. With Time Machine restore I am up an running within an hour. The M1 goes onto the pile of stuff to repair later. And this is where the international part plays a role, in nearly any city in the western world I can grab a new MacBook Pro within an hour. My day rate is significant enough that downtime is expensive. Not working for a week waiting for Framework to send parts is not an option for me. I can get next day delivery for memory and an SSD through Amazon in most of Europe but that is still a day rate wasted.
- steveBK123 10mo ago
  The way all of the backup/sync/restore is so dialed in on MacOS/iOS/iPadOS at this point is pretty hard to beat. You get a performant fat client that you can treat like an interchangeable thin client as the need arises.
  - systemtest 10mo ago
    Exactly. I have a high-speed USB-C disk connected to my machine and an off-site backup. The first is for accidentally deleted files and to be able to quickly recover. The other is more of an actual backup. My iPhone and MacBook are indeed expendable devices at this point.
- drxzcl 10mo ago
  All the stores I can get to within a reasonable time period stock ISO keyboards instead of ANSI, and I've never really warmed up to those. So I'm stuck with next-day even for macs.
  - systemtest 10mo ago
    Agreed, though for the sake of ergonomics I hardly use the built-in keyboard and almost always have an external keyboard connected.
jdblair 10mo ago
I'm also a laptop weirdo and I've had a Framework 13 with the Ryzen 7 motherboard since May of 2022. I run Ubuntu (currently 25.10) on it. Its a good laptop, but not a great laptop. Its very light and compact (very important to me), and its been reliable, at least since the AMD GPU driver issues were resolved. The matte screen is fine, battery life is adequate, and the CPU meets my needs as a hobby developer. Overall, I'm happy with it and I expect to use it for many years. Its biggest issues are the touchpad (it's a diving board design, so you have to always click in the bottom 1/3 of the pad) and the quality of the case. The case flexes slightly if the computer is on an uneven surface, or if you are holding it in one hand by the corner while typing/mousing with your other hand, and this can cause the mechanics of the touchpad to jam. I've trained myself to tap instead of click, but that's me adapting to bad hardware. I wish the case were more solid, even though I know this would add to the expense, size and weight. I expect to eventually replace every part of this laptop except the case, so I would appreciate more durability.
- dontlaugh 10mo ago
  I tried a coworker’s, I was a bit shocked how poor the case is. Everything flexes badly, especially the keyboard. I was considering one, but definitely not worth it. I can get a ThinkPad for less and it’s much better quality.
  - billfor 10mo ago
    Is it a 13 or 16? I have a Intel gen 12 framework 13 and it feels solid except the display is a little wobbly. The original display tended to swing in a heavy wind a bit much, but they improved the hinge at some point.
    - dontlaugh 10mo ago
      13. The entire laptop can be easily and worryingly flexed by hand when closed. The keyboard in particular flexes by more than a millimetre when pressing on a key or in between them. It seems ridiculous when the much cheaper and thinner MacBook Air is far stiffer with no noticeable keyboard flex.
gsa 10mo ago
I have been looking to buy a new laptop personally. Framework has a compelling argument. But with only 4 ports on the Framework, I'd likely be switching the ports often. In addition to using USB-C, I often need a USB-A for an external mouse but other times a HDMI port to connect to a display while presenting. I don't think it's fair to compare Thinkpad X1 Carbon with Framework. The T14 range is a much better comparison. While Lenovo took a few steps back a few years ago the last couple of generations seem to be much better in regard to being repairable. The T14 Gen 5 [0] gets a 9/10 score on ifixit. Parts are easily available globally, while Framework is still somewhat limited in this regard geographically. That said, it's great we have a choice! If it were not for Framework, I don't think Lenovo would have made an effort to make the Thinkpads repairable again. - [0] https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T14_Gen_5 https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T14_Gen_5
- je42 10mo ago
  you can switch the ports pretty quickly on framework laptops.
  - gsa 10mo ago
    In my experience (my partner has a Framework), changing a port is not something easily done without putting the Framework bottom side up. In practice you need to stop whatever you are doing to first sleep the laptop, turn it over, change the port and then get back to what you were doing before. Repeat the process if you want to get the ports back in the original order.
    - nfriedly 10mo ago
      Yeah, I agree with this. I find it simpler to just carry a couple of usb-c to whatever hub/adapters for when I need to a port my framework doesn't have built in.
      - least 10mo ago
        The expansion cards seem pretty gimmicky to me. You're replacing a hub with... a bunch of hubs with one port on it. I know it opens up to some third party modules (this one seems particularly cool: https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus) but for the most part you are getting less connectivity than other laptops. You don't even get an audio jack without taking up one of your expansion slots (edit: on the Framework 16. 13 includes it). If the expansion slots were larger then they could have maybe facilitated something like getting 2 usb-a ports in exchange for the one USB-C which feels like an actual thing to consider. As it is, it just doesn't feel like you're gaining anything. If you're carrying any additional expansion cards with you you lose the only advantage it has over buying a hub, which can turn that one usb-c slot into multiple usb-a ports, ethernet, hdmi, audio, sd card reader, etc.
jchip303 10mo ago
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astra1701 10mo ago
The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilot key. This approach even allows the manufacturer to correct design flaws after the fact -- and let's face it, there will always be design flaws. For instance, my FW13 originally came with a very weak hinge for the screen. It was perfectly usable for most daily usage and most people probably wouldn't care, but it meant I couldn't hold it up without the screen tilting back. Well, FW corrected this for those customers who really did care by just selling a new hinge for $24, and so $24 + 10 minutes with a screwdriver later, I had a substantially more refined device! (And to clarify -- there was a defective hinge version in the early batches, and those were replaced free of charge. Mine was a slightly later version that, beyond lacking the level of stiffness I preferred, was not defective.)
- Esophagus4 10mo ago
  Exactly - imagine if early MacBook Butterfly keyboard users had the option to simply upgrade their keyboard to a fixed version for $40... [1]https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/ https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/
  - vermon 10mo ago
    One of the white Macbooks used 50 screws to fasten the keyboard. Once I spilled some juice on it and had to replace it. Took forever, but at least back then it was not too expensive or difficult.
    - linsomniac 10mo ago
      Could have been worse: I replaced a keyboard for a friends daughter and her Dell had ~50 plastic studs holding the keyboard in place, each one was melted rivet-style. I had to remove enough that I could get the keyboard out, but not so much that there wasn't still plastic to melt to hold the new keyboard in place.
Esophagus4 10mo ago
I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that crack, USB-C and no USB-A...) so I spec'ed out my Framework with USB-C and USB-A.) But aside from repairability when stuff breaks, a laptop's hardware slowly becomes obsolete because software is usually written for the new stuff. If you're like me and you keep your laptop for 10 years, that means: in year 1 you have 1 year old hardware, in year 6 you have 6 year old hardware, etc. So your laptop gets worse and worse performance because you can't incrementally upgrade your hardware... you only upgrade in a big bang every 10 years when you buy a new one. Towards the end of its life, you're really struggling to keep the thing above water. With a Framework, in theory I can upgrade the hardware incrementally over time rather than needing a big bang every 10 years. So instead of having 6 year old hardware at year 6, I'll probably have 2 year old hardware again. So I'll more closely match the industry improvements curve. Will this work in reality? Will it be expensive to replace all the parts, and will the case be able to cool new CPUs, and will I have to get a new mainboard, etc? Who knows. But I thought it was interesting enough to take a gamble on the laptop. And worst case, it's not a fatal decision... I can just go back to MacBooks...
- Etheryte 10mo ago
  I can't even recall when I last needed USB-A, literally everything I have uses USB-C (or bluetooth for mouse and keyboard). What do you use it for?
  - nrp 10mo ago
    USB-A is our second most popular Expansion Card after USB-C (and before HDMI), so certainly people are using it for something!
    - deleted 10mo ago
      [deleted]
cromka 10mo ago
They need to bring trackpoint and WWAN, otherwise they simply are not a competition for Lenovo, as much as I hate it. I also find their design very boring. I am not asking for a MacBook, but even ThinkPads are way more sexy and you can actually identify with that design. Framework just comes off as another 2015 MacBook Air design knockoff.
28Chambers 10mo ago
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rwbt 10mo ago
I purchased the first generation of FW13 laptops and got burned. The CMOS/RTC battery drains if not plugged in so the laptop never keeps proper time. I don't think I've ever used a gadget in the last few decades that needs setting the correct date & time every time I turn it on. Granted, it was their first ever shipping product so I gave them a free pass but I thought they would atleast issue a recall or have a repair program where you send in the laptop to get it fixed. Instead they first denied it was even an issue, later on when enough people complained - they started a battery program where they send you a new ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working. I was told buying a new mainboard (12th or 13th gen Intel) would fix it, but I decided to just buy a new ZenBook instead.
- nrp 10mo ago
  We have the full detail and a permanent fix for this issue here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+11th+Gen+Intel%C2%AE+Core%E2%84%A2/203 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+... We still provide the RTC substitute module free to any 11th Gen owner who requests it.
  - rwbt 10mo ago
    The permanent fix involves soldering stuff on the mainboard, which I don't have any prior experience. The RTC substitute module you mention is just the ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working.
    - nrp 10mo ago
      The RTC substitute module is the permanent fix, which does require soldering one wire to a point on the Mainboard.
      - rwbt 10mo ago
        I appreciate the response, but my suggestion would be to offer a mail-in service program so that users don't have to fiddle with potentially dangerous soldering (ideally Framework bearing the shipping costs or atleast subsidizing it).
mmcnl 10mo ago
I don't get Framework. The business offerings of HP, Dell and Lenovo have a lot of replacable parts, and you can easily upgrade the RAM and SSD on many. These laptops already exist for decades. Framework hardly brings anything new into the mix.
jutter 10mo ago
I don't care about the upgradeability or repairability. I think that people espousing these points need a reality check - other laptops aren't that bad for repairability (I have always had Alienwares, and have had no trouble sourcing and installing parts in laptops even 10+ years old), and piecemeal upgrades really don't make sense in the long term. Framework also seems to have attracted a certain type of activist that I won't get into here (they're very opinionated about the company's donations). I've ordered a Framework 16, though. Not for any of that crap, but just to be able to customise it. That's what I love. They should really lean in to this. Once the eco and repairability nonsense has faded - and it will, because it's marketing fluff - you still have a laptop that is extremely versatile from a company that doesn't hate you. It's not bloated with spyware by default, the checkout process isn't full of dark patterns, they support and encourage you to use it how you want to use it. Lean in. Make more modules. Make better modules. Assist the community more with new and varied modules. It's crazy that eGPU and dual USB modules are primarily driven by amateur forum volunteers rather than being major priorities for Framework's engineers. Design a low-profile mechanical keyboard, I don't care for your excuses. Give us proper touchpad options with buttons. Keyboard modules with scroll wheels and panning for CAD. These are what makes Framework special. In 3 or 4 years it's going to be thrown on the same pile as all of my other old laptops, never to be upgraded or repaired again. I don't care for that. I just want a laptop customised for my needs over that time, rather than fighting against the antagonistic whims of Dell et al.
- makeitdouble 10mo ago
  On repairability, other laptops are mostly fine if you don't need any guarantee or official parts. That's a big ask IMHO. Especially for the keyboard: 2~3 years of heavy use will have a clear impact, and I'd hate to get a replacement second hand (so already with a limited life span) or from a random vendor I have no idea if it will fry the motherboard. Otherwise I was surprised by Framework's keyboard supporting QMK. That's the kind of nice things that make them standout IMHO.
- BoingBoomTschak 10mo ago
  This, please help me ditch my old Haswell Latitude, touchpads without buttons (or even better, 3 buttons) are horrid things!
StayTrue 10mo ago
I bought the first AMD Framework 13 at launch. It just works and I’d buy it again. To me their software story is compelling. To use the wording of the article, I like that I can be a weirdo running Linux on a laptop and not be a fringe use case. I had no interest in either of their supported distros but their support forums had the necessary hints needed to get a different distro up and running (plugging in newer firmware from the Linux kernel git). I like that they’ve given some support to the FreeBSD community and I’d like to run that on a future Framework.
- guerby 10mo ago
  I bought a Gen11 framework 13 then later when available I replaced its motherboard by a Gen12. The old motherboard with the coolermaster case is tucked between two books in my library and is now running my home proxmox. 64GB RAM 4TB NVME 4C/8T 2.5G ethernet and ... 2 Watt idle. I did run "proxmox in proxmox" with ceph and cloudinit/live migration for a conference I gave on this old motherboard: video https://jres.ubicast.tv/permalink/v1268c650f5d41v26pt0/iframe/ https://jres.ubicast.tv/permalink/v1268c650f5d41v26pt0/ifram... PDF https://conf-ng.jres.org/2024/document_revision_2424.html?download https://conf-ng.jres.org/2024/document_revision_2424.html?do... scripts https://framagit.org/guerby/proxmox-in-proxmox https://framagit.org/guerby/proxmox-in-proxmox
  - adolph 10mo ago
    I've been eyeing the coolermaster kit. It seems like an interesting way to do a 1l pc. Can you just plug usbc directly into them without using the expansion things? The cooling seems to travel 90° corresponding to in the bottom and out the back of a laptop. How do you have it between two books?
- gary_0 10mo ago
  The explicit support for Linux is the main reason I bought a Framework (which looked slightly more attractive to me than System76).
gclawes 10mo ago
I very much want a Framework 13 with a decent AI chip, but the abysmal battery life is a hard stop for me, sadly. I know this isn't entirely on Framework (get your shit together AMD).
Gooblebrai 10mo ago
The only thing stopping me from buying one is that I heard the fan is quite loud. Is that still true?
- ruiseal 10mo ago
  I have the Intel Core Ultra and on the first mainboard I had (which Framework replaced because there were other issues) the fan ran quite a lot and was annoying. On the second board the fan never runs unless I'm compiling something.
cyberrock 10mo ago
Unfortunately the FW13 is how I realized I don't like 13(.5)" and 3:2, because I'm just too used to 14-16" and 16:10/16:9. I wish they had more variety in chassis, not just in size and aspect ratio, but also touchscreen and 2-in-1 conversion. You'd think that that might be easier to support than designing and supporting more mainboards. But when I saw that FW12 is a 2-in-1 I knew they were never going to add touch to 13/16, so I just gave up and got a different (larger) 2-in-1.
- mixmastamyk 10mo ago
  16:9 sucks unless you watch movies all day. A taller screen allows less scrolling. The 16 is larger and is 16:10.
Insanity 10mo ago
I really like the idea of Framework. But the use-case for their laptop just doesn’t typically exist for me. I have a custom built PC (been building my own since 2008). In that span, I had many minor upgrades and 3 entirely new from-scratch builds. I could not imagine it any other way. For my laptops though, I never bothered. I want something that “just works” when I’m on-the-go, it’s fine if it’s not new hardware as I won’t game on them, and my primary concern is how light they are. And then a few years ago I got the iPad Pro which became my only device I’d take while traveling.
sixothree 10mo ago
I just wish they would introduce a TKL layout. I don't use laptop keyboard because during development I rely on the navigation key combos. Think control-shift-home or shift-arrow, or control-pagedown. And it's disappointing because Framework is the _perfect_ company to offer such an option.
konaraddi 10mo ago
I think the author is the target customer for Framework. A customer looking for a ship of Theseus laptop that the seller stands by. I’ve looked at framework as a potential next laptop but it’s expensive, some of parts are expensive, and the other parts I’m not sure I’ve ever had issues with in past laptops. I think I’m better off buying multiple used thinkpads over the course of my life, or even a used MBP (refurbished m4 MBP goes for ~$1.3K from Apple, base configuration w/ 16GB ram for framework 13 is ~1.2K), than a Framework; the thinkpads would be cheaper and more eco friendly with good build quality. I’m not looking for a ship of Theseus laptop, I’m just looking for something that works a long time, is good enough, and I want to keep my lifetime expenditure on hardware on the lower side. I look at my laptop cost as upfront cost divided by number of years I expect to use it for and I have a spreadsheet with past laptops (and phones) tracking historical usage and costs to better inform my next purchase. Framework looks attractive but the costs don’t seem to align with my goal.
- SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
  I’m own a FW13 and I have bought ~4 for employees. I doubt I will order more. We’ve had small and large issues. My Linux machine will drain the battery completely if you don’t perform a full shutdown, and even then the quiescent drain is too high and I can expect it to be dead in a week. The dream of repairability is great, but the reality just isn’t there. That said, I was able to replace a damaged screen with no effort at all. A far cry from the MS Surface I had previously, but any vendor could sell a screen or keyboard without the “full modularity” that FW pushes.
  - yaro330 10mo ago
    Apparently Surface laptops come with stellar repair guides now, and they improved repairability greatly. MS doing something nice for once?
    - SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
      Counterpoint… the battery is superglued to the chassis and to replace for my model was STEP 53, and that was to scrape the old battery off and glue the new one in, then 53 steps backwards to re-assemble.
EbNar 10mo ago
> You can't change the RAM on laptops now. > You can't change the SSD on laptops now. > You can't easily repair the screen on laptops now. I can do all of that on my Thinkpad E14.
nona 10mo ago
I want to like framework, but whenever I've seen one of them in person I was pretty disappointed about the case/chassis. And the touchpad. For me personally, weight doesn't matter that much, and neither does configurability (I guess by now they have data on the most popular port choices for example). But size (as small/minimal as possible for a given screen and keyboard size – minimal bezels for both) and strength (no flex, solid hinge) do matter to me. I understand these two things conflict with themselves, and with the framework's repairability and configurability. Still, I'd like to see some true innovation there. I'm just afraid they painted themselves into a corner with their current mainboard design, and won't be able to diverge from that to bring us something truly solid yet compact and repairable.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]
GavinNewsom 10mo ago
[flagged]
phlipski 10mo ago
I've had a Framework 13 for 20 months now. AMD Ryzen™ 5 7640U w/ 32GB DDR4. Running Ubuntu. I love it. My only complaint/request: USB-C for power should be build into the chassis and not require a modular port. You get 4 ports to mix things like usb/hdmi/sd-card, etc... 1 of the 4 is always using the usb-c for power.
outlore 10mo ago
I've been wistfully watching people enjoy Framework Laptop from the sidelines for years now. One doubt that has always plagued me: realistically how long can the backwards compatibility for new improvements last? Surely there must be some point where a new processor, or chassis, or airflow improvement must necessitate the complete reconfiguration of the laptop internals or would be just plain unsupported? I don't have background in industrial design or electrical engineering so I've never been able to lay these doubts to rest.
- mixmastamyk 10mo ago
  We know how to make laptops now, and the framework is fine. A major development, like Apple-level power efficiency would require less airflow than x64. Don’t think there’s anything major to worry about. May need the 16 for pro-level local LLMs for a while.
dang 10mo ago
Recent and probably related: I'm returning my Framework 16 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 - Dec 2025 (576 comments)
yaro330 10mo ago
As someone not swimming in piles of cash, I can't bring myself to get a framework laptop. Ironically enough, new ThinkPads, which are on sale pretty regularly, end up being much nicer, solidly built, more performant, and with an awesome warranty, even in my shithole region.
binarycrusader 10mo ago
Yes, eccentric, but this thread linked from the post is the real winner: https://community.frame.work/t/the-snack-drawer-store-now-made-with-real-snacks/43101 https://community.frame.work/t/the-snack-drawer-store-now-ma...
commandersaki 10mo ago
I wonder how much of a laptop weirdo you would be if you didn't have other desktops or laptops to rely upon.
commandersaki 10mo ago
I've posted this about a year ago on another Framework thread. I see a lot of questions from people interested in FW laptops, so I thought my experience may help understand the good and bad. I bought a Framework 13" in 2022, Intel 13th gen with 32GB ram (probably not as stupid as expensive as it is now) and 1TB drive. It has good intentions but falls short. I would say overall it is a mediocre laptop in terms of quality. Will it last longer than any other laptop? I would think so, as it has a strong story of available parts and upgrades. Similarly I believe it would last longer than any other laptop, since you can essentially do a Ship of Theseus with it. Pain points: - display hinge problem, picking up the laptop would make the screen lie flat 180 degrees, which is really annoying - this has been fixed in newer versions of framework, but to get a new hinge kit costs $39 AUD plus $30 AUD in shipping, so I'm not willing to make that purchase due to the ridiculous shipping price, - the modular ports are nice, but I'd rather just have fixed ports and more of them, of course that'd obstruct the repair/modularity story, - sometimes the modular ports do not work after resuming from a hibernate, I have to eject and reseat it, - the display is okay, I notice mine has a small granular line of off coloured pixels - i don't think this is due to any physical damage but rather a defect in the screen as I've never had this kind of issue with any other laptop and I've handled the framework fairly carefully; but this line of off coloured pixels is very faint and virtually unnoticeable unless using very dark colours, so it's not a huge deal as I make it out to be, - the keyboard works great, but I was hoping for an upgrade to something along the lines of an apple style layout with half height inverted-t arrow keys and fn/ctrl swapped; the idea of a marketplace for custom parts never really eventuated save a few niche things like RISC V, - Battery life of about 3-4 hours of very average usage, - Speakers are trash. The webcam / mic are good enough. I run Linux on it, and seems to run pretty stable. I needed this laptop because I needed 32GB of ram for compile jobs (c++ programmers on large projects knows such pain). I have since got a macbook pro 16" with >32GB of ram and it can compile what I need using Rosetta 2 for Linux (so amd64 compiles). Since my mac can now do everything I need, I haven't really touched my Framework; I just keep it spare when I need a bare metal x86-64 in a pinch. I loathe the idea of having to use it over a mac laptop. The good news is since my post a year ago, Apple has since released the m4 chips which allow the Macbook Air range to drive up to two external displays using thunderbolt.
psyclobe 10mo ago
So the 13 is probably a lot better than the new 16 for reasons that... well its simpler, smaller; and a lot more rigid (by virtue of its size). From what I read about the 16 though that sounds like a lot harder of a sell. I'm pretty sure the 13 is still paying Frameworks bills...

292 points by todsacerdoti 10mo ago

phoronixrly 10mo ago

[flagged]

eviks 10mo ago
Write better notes, you've missed all the more important reasons!
- phoronixrly 10mo ago
  The rest of them are just as fastidious if not more.
  - eviks 10mo ago
    They aren't, otherwise you wouldn't have to pick the lightest of them and pick only 1
    - phoronixrly 10mo ago
      The lightest one? What about the display colour mismatch, which is literally one of the first things I calibrate away when I get a new laptop, even on macbooks? Imagine moaning about two displays from completely different manufacturers and production dates showing different colours... Or maybe the auto-dimming feature which can be disabled by software? Or the touchpad which is 'too sensitive when scrolling'....
      - eviks 10mo ago
        > first things I calibrate away How? Do you expect every user to have an easier access to color calibration hardware devices to fix this issue compared to a software fix they could find after some googling??? > auto-dimming feature which can be disabled by software He also disabled the led via software, so you failed to point out why this one is easier > the touchpad which is 'too sensitive when scrolling'.... How is this lighter? Touching the touchpad is a very frequent action, so the deficiency will affect you every day, and you can’t fix it by looking up some systemd service unlike the LED, and you can’t put a sticker on it to dim it. So how is an unsolvable frequent issue more trivial than a solvable one?
  - bayindirh 10mo ago
    Lowest screen brightness and color correctness of the said screen are not trivial issues. I used to work in a dimly illuminated room during late nights, and any screen which can't do low-light properly is blinding. Color correctness, even if you don't hit "calibrated pipeline" levels is extremely useful for seeing and/or editing photos. Even if you're doing this casually.
blauditore 10mo ago
Such details also annoy me, but this one would be very easy to fix with a semi-transparent sticker, or a marker.
- Krssst 10mo ago
  The LED is the lining of the power button so it's not so trivial to fix without affecting the power button itself. It's quite an annoyance too I think.
  - nh2 10mo ago
    Thin tape
    - bayindirh 10mo ago
      Smudged adhesive, sticky button, a dislocated tape, dirt, ugliness, etc.
- bayindirh 10mo ago
  If I'm buying a premium machine, I don't expect and want to mod it with $3 tape and ¢50 markers. It's like buying a premium car and installing an aftermarket instrument cluster because the OEM one is too bright at its lowest setting.
  - blauditore 10mo ago
    I agree, but reality is often different, even for cars. Sometimes because of incompetence, sometimes because of dark patterns. Many newer cars do have space for putting your phone somewhere on the middle console, but it's arranged in ways to make it impossible to place your phone in a way that would make it usable for navigation. Why? Because they desparately want you to use their own navigation setup (which probably costs extra too).
    - bayindirh 10mo ago
      If we exclude a Dacia which lacked a screen and a radio, all the cars I have rented in the last three years had Android Auto and Apple CarPlay built in. Even though my phone was tucked there somewhere, I always used my phone's maps and other features while driving via the USB cable or wirelessly. And, that wasn't half bad even. Did phone calls, used maps, listened to some music. Got the job done pretty smoothly.
deleted 10mo ago
[deleted]

ganmet 10mo ago

[dead]

999900000999 10mo ago

>You can't change the RAM on laptops now. >You can't change the SSD on laptops now. I literally just brought a laptop 3 weeks ago and I've already upgraded both of those. It's a newer model with an RTX GPU. I think framework has potential, but it's going to be a decade to see how things pan out. Will I be able to use the same mainboard for a decade? So far what I'm seeing is a laptop brand which charges between 50% and 100% more with strange customer support issues and a limited service network. If you're thinking about reducing waste , buy a refurbished Thinkpad.

newsclues 10mo ago
You can buy a new mainboard for a framework…
simonh 10mo ago
Or buy an up-specced conventional laptop with a ton more storage and RAM to start with for the same price. Get your upgrades in first at no extra cost. If you're getting a Framework with the top specs and can't get a competing laptop at higher spec cheaper, I can see the argument that you might benefit from the extra upgradability headroom. However that almost certainly means a mainboard upgrade, and I'd be concerned about the thermals of a current chassis with a hypothetical future mainboard.
- chocochunks 10mo ago
  Until recently with the recent madness it was almost always cheaper to buy a base model then upgrade RAM and storage yourself.
blauditore 10mo ago
In terms of hardware, there shouldn't be too many surprises. People have been doing this with desktop computers for ages, so it's known what it means to maintain and upgrade 10+ years old computers. I have one (desktop) that I'm using regularly, and did a few minor upgrades over the years. Of course, warranty and support quality is a different question.
kllrnohj 10mo ago

zerof1l 10mo ago

To me, the biggest appeal of the Framework laptop is that I can repair it myself and buy OEM parts directly. I currently own a Lenovo Legion laptop. Still, a very powerful machine, but the screen now has a spot in the middle with multiple dead pixels, the topcoat on the trackpad is peeling off, and the main body has spots where palms rest. I'd happily buy replacement parts and install them, but I can't.

BoredPositron 10mo ago
I don't understand the argument you can buy Lenovo OEM parts pretty easily? Even if something is not available through the pcparts site I ordered a replacement display via support. https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/parts-lookup https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/parts-lookup
- tecoholic 10mo ago
  Yeah! I am also surprised. I have a lenovo from 2015 that's gotten it's wifi card, power IC, RAM - all replaced at some point for very cheap across multiple cities in India. And all this is on a Ideapad. One of their budget "professional" laptops, not even a Thinkpad. While I understand what Framework is doing and the repairability aspect, somehow this conversation always seems to make it seem Laptops are similar to Ipads or something. It's not.
Esophagus4 10mo ago
Can you buy a cheap donor laptop and strip it for parts?

haritha-j 10mo ago

I was on the market earlier this year snd I really wanted a framework to make sense. But it doesn’t. By my math, I could get two comparable laptops for the price of the framework, and the flexibility to get a second one with newer specs a few years down made it a bad deal for me. But if you aren’t strapped for cash and appreciate the sustainability, then it’s appealing. For me, a slightly greener laptop isn’t a good enough value proposition. Plus I prefer intel for TB support for an egpu.

kllrnohj 10mo ago
What were you comparing against? When I bought my framework it didn't really have a price premium to it relatively to comparable laptops. The main compromise was the thicker chassis and fewer options in terms of things like premium displays. > Plus I prefer intel for TB support for an egpu. lol you and nobody else prefer Intel in a laptop these days. But FYI framework has TB support on their Intel skus and AMD has USB 4 (aka, thunderbolt 3++)
- haritha-j 10mo ago
  I didn't want to take any risks wrt the egpu support because with an egpu there's already a whole lot of unknowns, so wanted to play it safe with proper TB support. It's a bit of a niche requirement though, so I get that other people may not care. But aside from that I just wanted a basic cheap and light laptop. I got an Acer for £500 on sale with a 2nd gen intel chip. Despite the hate intel gets, their 2nd gen chips are actually really good in terms of battery life. If I spec a comparable laptop right now on Framework, it's around £1400, even for 1st gen intel. Plus the Acer came with a lovely OLED screen, which the framework doesn't seem to have, as you mentioned.
- yaro330 10mo ago
  AMD USB4 is a joke. Every unplug is a gamble with amdgpu driver, you might get a working system, you might not, same for suspend-resume cycles.

eviks 10mo ago

> Did I do anything productive or meaningful with it? Absolutely not. > I could finally watch 480 YouTube videos instead of 360 What’s meaningless about this big upgrade in quality? So with that and the misconceptions like "You can't change the RAM /SSD" (you can, but for a smaller set of laptops than before), the thesis is rather muddy (unless you literally plan a custom printed snacks tray, but even then other laptops have pluggable side bays, so could also plug in there?)

nfriedly 10mo ago
I'm guessing that the author is comparing it to their their M1 MacBook Pro, which has soldered in RAM and an Apple proprietary SSD, that is much more difficult to replace than a standard one. Many laptops do still have replaceable RAM and SSDs, but it's not a sure thing these days.

markus_zhang 10mo ago

I’d like to read from someone who has at least 5 years of experience with Framework. New stuffs are always interesting. But I prefer something that can last for 5 plus years. Framework afaik does not have long term guarantees which is a concern.

kllrnohj 10mo ago
Framework as a company is only 5 years old, but they've already done several generations of upgrade parts (including webcam, keyboard, display, mainboards, etc...) and have large availability of repair/replacement parts. So unless their parts are uniquely bad in that they randomly fail after 5 years, it seems pretty clear that they are delivering on the long term ownership goals?
- deleted 10mo ago
  [deleted]
washadjeffmad 10mo ago
I think that's a reasonable point - is there anyone doing "State of My Framework" reports? It's hard to know how true their claim of timelessness through upgrades and repairs is without that.

tovej 10mo ago

[flagged]

patrickaljord 10mo ago
Omarchy and DHH are great, nice to see framework supporting them. hyprland is amazing too.
- tovej 10mo ago
  Omarchy is a thin set of vibecoded shell scripts on top of arch linux, and DHH is a right-wing weirdo. It certainly strikes me as odd that a company like framework would choose to support Omarchy so loudly as they did, and then refuse to comment on it.

washadjeffmad 10mo ago

Relevant to "I'm returning my Framework Laptop" from a day or two ago (500+ comments): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 I think the Framework model (OTC/commodity parts + mainboard) is neat, but what Beelink and others in the MiniPC space are doing is much more useful and compelling for someone who needs a modern, extensible system. My work doesn't require a lot of local compute (or repairs), so there's nothing really a Framework offers that I'm not already getting on a 5 year old $150 4GB Chromebook.

mixmastamyk 10mo ago
What is beelink doing?

myself248 10mo ago

Oh, I did magnificent things to my old Toughbook CF-17 / CF-m34. (It ended up as a franken-puter with parts of both.) First: Remove the internal CDPD wireless modem, remove the internal 56k POTS modem/10/100 Ethernet combo card. Wire the TTL-level UART from the CDPD port over to the RJ11 jack so I could now hack on embedded devices using a simple RJ11-to-bare-wires cable. Second: The modem/ethernet card removal freed up the MiniPCI slot. Obtain a MiniPCI-to-USB2.0 card (4 downstream ports), and desolder the tall headers (it was meant for embedded machines with more internal space). Then verrrry carefully desolder the machine's external USB1.1 port pins from the mobo, and wire them over to one of the USB2.0 host ports. (Ground stayed, but D+/D-/Vbus moved.) Ta-daa, faster external devices. This is the only bit I seem to have a photo of: https://flickr.com/photos/myself248/255205625/ https://flickr.com/photos/myself248/255205625/ Third: Carve out some stiffening ribs from under the palm-rest, shuck a USB-Bluetooth adapter, and mount it in there. The palm-rest being plastic means this puts the radio outside the magnesium shell, but still "internal" from an ergonomic perspective. Sneak some wires past the touchpad opening and solder them to the now-freed-up USB1.1 host port on the mobo, since bluetooth doesn't need 480Mbps. Fourth: Shuck a 2GB USB flash drive and wire it to another internal USB2.0 port, and run EBoostr, a third-party implementation of Readyboost for WinXP, which gave flash-cache functionality for severely RAM-limited machines like mine (192MB mobo max, sadly!). Tuck it up by the RAM, ironically, because there's plenty of room up there. Fifth: Shuck a USB2.0-GigE adapter (one with separate magnetics and jack, leave the magnetics but remove the jack because it's too tall, also remove the USB port), and wire it to yet a third internal USB2.0 port. Wire the Ethernet side out to the RJ45 jack freed up by the 10/100 card removal. The speed boost from 100Mbps to 480Mbps (GigE bottlenecked by USB2.0) isn't nothing, but the real benefit is that GigE is Auto-MDIX so I never have to carry a crossover cable, and that's worth it all by itself. Sixth: Shuck a USB-Wifi dongle, and wire it to the fourth and final internal USB2.0 port. Do the world's hairiest coax splice to the CDPD modem's antenna lead, so the 2.4GHz RF now goes out to the 800MHz-tuned antenna mounted on the screen. Split the antenna open and trim the active elements to 1/3 their length, raising the resonant frequency accordingly. Without access to a VNA at the time, this was as good as I could get, and it worked just fine. At that point, it was pretty much the perfect laptop, except for the brutally-limited RAM, which eventually forced its obsolescence as browsers bloated without bound. I used it heavily during 2006-07, and to this day I still miss that perfect little keyboard.

jokoon 10mo ago

Bought a thinkpad L450 10 years ago for about 900 euros. No GPU, which probably increased its lifespan. Replaced its HDD with a SSD. Apart from thinkpads and maybe framework, I don't think there is any other reliable laptop brand with reasonable prices. I was talking with my mother about buying jeans pants that would last for a long time, and a 200 euros jeans would have holes on its 6th year or something. Everything is built to last "just long enough".

systemtest 10mo ago

I work international (somewhat of a digital nomad) so perhaps I’m an outlier in my usage. I have an M1 MacBook Pro that I bought new at release. I can’t replace the memory or storage. But so far I didn’t need to do that. In case it breaks, I walk to my nearby electronics store and purchase a new MacBook Pro. With Time Machine restore I am up an running within an hour. The M1 goes onto the pile of stuff to repair later. And this is where the international part plays a role, in nearly any city in the western world I can grab a new MacBook Pro within an hour. My day rate is significant enough that downtime is expensive. Not working for a week waiting for Framework to send parts is not an option for me. I can get next day delivery for memory and an SSD through Amazon in most of Europe but that is still a day rate wasted.

steveBK123 10mo ago
The way all of the backup/sync/restore is so dialed in on MacOS/iOS/iPadOS at this point is pretty hard to beat. You get a performant fat client that you can treat like an interchangeable thin client as the need arises.
- systemtest 10mo ago
  Exactly. I have a high-speed USB-C disk connected to my machine and an off-site backup. The first is for accidentally deleted files and to be able to quickly recover. The other is more of an actual backup. My iPhone and MacBook are indeed expendable devices at this point.
drxzcl 10mo ago
All the stores I can get to within a reasonable time period stock ISO keyboards instead of ANSI, and I've never really warmed up to those. So I'm stuck with next-day even for macs.
- systemtest 10mo ago
  Agreed, though for the sake of ergonomics I hardly use the built-in keyboard and almost always have an external keyboard connected.

jdblair 10mo ago

I'm also a laptop weirdo and I've had a Framework 13 with the Ryzen 7 motherboard since May of 2022. I run Ubuntu (currently 25.10) on it. Its a good laptop, but not a great laptop. Its very light and compact (very important to me), and its been reliable, at least since the AMD GPU driver issues were resolved. The matte screen is fine, battery life is adequate, and the CPU meets my needs as a hobby developer. Overall, I'm happy with it and I expect to use it for many years. Its biggest issues are the touchpad (it's a diving board design, so you have to always click in the bottom 1/3 of the pad) and the quality of the case. The case flexes slightly if the computer is on an uneven surface, or if you are holding it in one hand by the corner while typing/mousing with your other hand, and this can cause the mechanics of the touchpad to jam. I've trained myself to tap instead of click, but that's me adapting to bad hardware. I wish the case were more solid, even though I know this would add to the expense, size and weight. I expect to eventually replace every part of this laptop except the case, so I would appreciate more durability.

dontlaugh 10mo ago
I tried a coworker’s, I was a bit shocked how poor the case is. Everything flexes badly, especially the keyboard. I was considering one, but definitely not worth it. I can get a ThinkPad for less and it’s much better quality.
- billfor 10mo ago
  Is it a 13 or 16? I have a Intel gen 12 framework 13 and it feels solid except the display is a little wobbly. The original display tended to swing in a heavy wind a bit much, but they improved the hinge at some point.
  - dontlaugh 10mo ago
    13. The entire laptop can be easily and worryingly flexed by hand when closed. The keyboard in particular flexes by more than a millimetre when pressing on a key or in between them. It seems ridiculous when the much cheaper and thinner MacBook Air is far stiffer with no noticeable keyboard flex.

gsa 10mo ago

I have been looking to buy a new laptop personally. Framework has a compelling argument. But with only 4 ports on the Framework, I'd likely be switching the ports often. In addition to using USB-C, I often need a USB-A for an external mouse but other times a HDMI port to connect to a display while presenting. I don't think it's fair to compare Thinkpad X1 Carbon with Framework. The T14 range is a much better comparison. While Lenovo took a few steps back a few years ago the last couple of generations seem to be much better in regard to being repairable. The T14 Gen 5 [0] gets a 9/10 score on ifixit. Parts are easily available globally, while Framework is still somewhat limited in this regard geographically. That said, it's great we have a choice! If it were not for Framework, I don't think Lenovo would have made an effort to make the Thinkpads repairable again. - [0] https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T14_Gen_5 https://www.ifixit.com/Device/Lenovo_ThinkPad_T14_Gen_5

je42 10mo ago
you can switch the ports pretty quickly on framework laptops.
- gsa 10mo ago
  In my experience (my partner has a Framework), changing a port is not something easily done without putting the Framework bottom side up. In practice you need to stop whatever you are doing to first sleep the laptop, turn it over, change the port and then get back to what you were doing before. Repeat the process if you want to get the ports back in the original order.
  - nfriedly 10mo ago
    Yeah, I agree with this. I find it simpler to just carry a couple of usb-c to whatever hub/adapters for when I need to a port my framework doesn't have built in.
    - least 10mo ago
      The expansion cards seem pretty gimmicky to me. You're replacing a hub with... a bunch of hubs with one port on it. I know it opens up to some third party modules (this one seems particularly cool: https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus) but for the most part you are getting less connectivity than other laptops. You don't even get an audio jack without taking up one of your expansion slots (edit: on the Framework 16. 13 includes it). If the expansion slots were larger then they could have maybe facilitated something like getting 2 usb-a ports in exchange for the one USB-C which feels like an actual thing to consider. As it is, it just doesn't feel like you're gaining anything. If you're carrying any additional expansion cards with you you lose the only advantage it has over buying a hub, which can turn that one usb-c slot into multiple usb-a ports, ethernet, hdmi, audio, sd card reader, etc.

jchip303 10mo ago

[dead]

astra1701 10mo ago

The really special thing about Frameworks is that you can quickly buy and replace basically any part, not just the usual RAM and SSD -- case in point, when I managed to damage my FW13's keyboard such that it was no longer usable, I could just... go straight to Framework's website and buy a new one for $40. And, I even had the option of a slightly improved one, that shed the Windows key and lacked the god-awful copilot key. This approach even allows the manufacturer to correct design flaws after the fact -- and let's face it, there will always be design flaws. For instance, my FW13 originally came with a very weak hinge for the screen. It was perfectly usable for most daily usage and most people probably wouldn't care, but it meant I couldn't hold it up without the screen tilting back. Well, FW corrected this for those customers who really did care by just selling a new hinge for $24, and so $24 + 10 minutes with a screwdriver later, I had a substantially more refined device! (And to clarify -- there was a defective hinge version in the early batches, and those were replaced free of charge. Mine was a slightly later version that, beyond lacking the level of stiffness I preferred, was not defective.)

Esophagus4 10mo ago
Exactly - imagine if early MacBook Butterfly keyboard users had the option to simply upgrade their keyboard to a fixed version for $40... [1]https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/ https://www.keyboardsettlement.com/
- vermon 10mo ago
  One of the white Macbooks used 50 screws to fasten the keyboard. Once I spilled some juice on it and had to replace it. Took forever, but at least back then it was not too expensive or difficult.
  - linsomniac 10mo ago
    Could have been worse: I replaced a keyboard for a friends daughter and her Dell had ~50 plastic studs holding the keyboard in place, each one was melted rivet-style. I had to remove enough that I could get the keyboard out, but not so much that there wasn't still plastic to melt to hold the new keyboard in place.

Esophagus4 10mo ago

I thought Framework was worth a gamble. I replaced my last laptop after 10+ years because the battery gave out, the end-of-life hardware was so old it no longer got OS upgrades, and eventually apps stopped working. I like the idea of getting to easily throw new hardware at my machine to keep it going. (I also tired of Apple shoving bad experiences down my throat (TouchBar, Butterfly keyboards, thin glass screens that crack, USB-C and no USB-A...) so I spec'ed out my Framework with USB-C and USB-A.) But aside from repairability when stuff breaks, a laptop's hardware slowly becomes obsolete because software is usually written for the new stuff. If you're like me and you keep your laptop for 10 years, that means: in year 1 you have 1 year old hardware, in year 6 you have 6 year old hardware, etc. So your laptop gets worse and worse performance because you can't incrementally upgrade your hardware... you only upgrade in a big bang every 10 years when you buy a new one. Towards the end of its life, you're really struggling to keep the thing above water. With a Framework, in theory I can upgrade the hardware incrementally over time rather than needing a big bang every 10 years. So instead of having 6 year old hardware at year 6, I'll probably have 2 year old hardware again. So I'll more closely match the industry improvements curve. Will this work in reality? Will it be expensive to replace all the parts, and will the case be able to cool new CPUs, and will I have to get a new mainboard, etc? Who knows. But I thought it was interesting enough to take a gamble on the laptop. And worst case, it's not a fatal decision... I can just go back to MacBooks...

Etheryte 10mo ago
I can't even recall when I last needed USB-A, literally everything I have uses USB-C (or bluetooth for mouse and keyboard). What do you use it for?
- nrp 10mo ago
  USB-A is our second most popular Expansion Card after USB-C (and before HDMI), so certainly people are using it for something!
  - deleted 10mo ago
    [deleted]

cromka 10mo ago

They need to bring trackpoint and WWAN, otherwise they simply are not a competition for Lenovo, as much as I hate it. I also find their design very boring. I am not asking for a MacBook, but even ThinkPads are way more sexy and you can actually identify with that design. Framework just comes off as another 2015 MacBook Air design knockoff.

28Chambers 10mo ago

[dead]

rwbt 10mo ago

I purchased the first generation of FW13 laptops and got burned. The CMOS/RTC battery drains if not plugged in so the laptop never keeps proper time. I don't think I've ever used a gadget in the last few decades that needs setting the correct date & time every time I turn it on. Granted, it was their first ever shipping product so I gave them a free pass but I thought they would atleast issue a recall or have a repair program where you send in the laptop to get it fixed. Instead they first denied it was even an issue, later on when enough people complained - they started a battery program where they send you a new ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working. I was told buying a new mainboard (12th or 13th gen Intel) would fix it, but I decided to just buy a new ZenBook instead.

nrp 10mo ago
We have the full detail and a permanent fix for this issue here: https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+11th+Gen+Intel%C2%AE+Core%E2%84%A2/203 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+... We still provide the RTC substitute module free to any 11th Gen owner who requests it.
- rwbt 10mo ago
  The permanent fix involves soldering stuff on the mainboard, which I don't have any prior experience. The RTC substitute module you mention is just the ML220 coin battery that will also eventually stop working.
  - nrp 10mo ago
    The RTC substitute module is the permanent fix, which does require soldering one wire to a point on the Mainboard.
    - rwbt 10mo ago
      I appreciate the response, but my suggestion would be to offer a mail-in service program so that users don't have to fiddle with potentially dangerous soldering (ideally Framework bearing the shipping costs or atleast subsidizing it).

mmcnl 10mo ago

I don't get Framework. The business offerings of HP, Dell and Lenovo have a lot of replacable parts, and you can easily upgrade the RAM and SSD on many. These laptops already exist for decades. Framework hardly brings anything new into the mix.

jutter 10mo ago

I don't care about the upgradeability or repairability. I think that people espousing these points need a reality check - other laptops aren't that bad for repairability (I have always had Alienwares, and have had no trouble sourcing and installing parts in laptops even 10+ years old), and piecemeal upgrades really don't make sense in the long term. Framework also seems to have attracted a certain type of activist that I won't get into here (they're very opinionated about the company's donations). I've ordered a Framework 16, though. Not for any of that crap, but just to be able to customise it. That's what I love. They should really lean in to this. Once the eco and repairability nonsense has faded - and it will, because it's marketing fluff - you still have a laptop that is extremely versatile from a company that doesn't hate you. It's not bloated with spyware by default, the checkout process isn't full of dark patterns, they support and encourage you to use it how you want to use it. Lean in. Make more modules. Make better modules. Assist the community more with new and varied modules. It's crazy that eGPU and dual USB modules are primarily driven by amateur forum volunteers rather than being major priorities for Framework's engineers. Design a low-profile mechanical keyboard, I don't care for your excuses. Give us proper touchpad options with buttons. Keyboard modules with scroll wheels and panning for CAD. These are what makes Framework special. In 3 or 4 years it's going to be thrown on the same pile as all of my other old laptops, never to be upgraded or repaired again. I don't care for that. I just want a laptop customised for my needs over that time, rather than fighting against the antagonistic whims of Dell et al.

makeitdouble 10mo ago
On repairability, other laptops are mostly fine if you don't need any guarantee or official parts. That's a big ask IMHO. Especially for the keyboard: 2~3 years of heavy use will have a clear impact, and I'd hate to get a replacement second hand (so already with a limited life span) or from a random vendor I have no idea if it will fry the motherboard. Otherwise I was surprised by Framework's keyboard supporting QMK. That's the kind of nice things that make them standout IMHO.
BoingBoomTschak 10mo ago
This, please help me ditch my old Haswell Latitude, touchpads without buttons (or even better, 3 buttons) are horrid things!

StayTrue 10mo ago

I bought the first AMD Framework 13 at launch. It just works and I’d buy it again. To me their software story is compelling. To use the wording of the article, I like that I can be a weirdo running Linux on a laptop and not be a fringe use case. I had no interest in either of their supported distros but their support forums had the necessary hints needed to get a different distro up and running (plugging in newer firmware from the Linux kernel git). I like that they’ve given some support to the FreeBSD community and I’d like to run that on a future Framework.

guerby 10mo ago
I bought a Gen11 framework 13 then later when available I replaced its motherboard by a Gen12. The old motherboard with the coolermaster case is tucked between two books in my library and is now running my home proxmox. 64GB RAM 4TB NVME 4C/8T 2.5G ethernet and ... 2 Watt idle. I did run "proxmox in proxmox" with ceph and cloudinit/live migration for a conference I gave on this old motherboard: video https://jres.ubicast.tv/permalink/v1268c650f5d41v26pt0/iframe/ https://jres.ubicast.tv/permalink/v1268c650f5d41v26pt0/ifram... PDF https://conf-ng.jres.org/2024/document_revision_2424.html?download https://conf-ng.jres.org/2024/document_revision_2424.html?do... scripts https://framagit.org/guerby/proxmox-in-proxmox https://framagit.org/guerby/proxmox-in-proxmox
- adolph 10mo ago
  I've been eyeing the coolermaster kit. It seems like an interesting way to do a 1l pc. Can you just plug usbc directly into them without using the expansion things? The cooling seems to travel 90° corresponding to in the bottom and out the back of a laptop. How do you have it between two books?
gary_0 10mo ago
The explicit support for Linux is the main reason I bought a Framework (which looked slightly more attractive to me than System76).

gclawes 10mo ago

I very much want a Framework 13 with a decent AI chip, but the abysmal battery life is a hard stop for me, sadly. I know this isn't entirely on Framework (get your shit together AMD).

Gooblebrai 10mo ago

The only thing stopping me from buying one is that I heard the fan is quite loud. Is that still true?

ruiseal 10mo ago
I have the Intel Core Ultra and on the first mainboard I had (which Framework replaced because there were other issues) the fan ran quite a lot and was annoying. On the second board the fan never runs unless I'm compiling something.

cyberrock 10mo ago

Unfortunately the FW13 is how I realized I don't like 13(.5)" and 3:2, because I'm just too used to 14-16" and 16:10/16:9. I wish they had more variety in chassis, not just in size and aspect ratio, but also touchscreen and 2-in-1 conversion. You'd think that that might be easier to support than designing and supporting more mainboards. But when I saw that FW12 is a 2-in-1 I knew they were never going to add touch to 13/16, so I just gave up and got a different (larger) 2-in-1.

mixmastamyk 10mo ago
16:9 sucks unless you watch movies all day. A taller screen allows less scrolling. The 16 is larger and is 16:10.

Insanity 10mo ago

I really like the idea of Framework. But the use-case for their laptop just doesn’t typically exist for me. I have a custom built PC (been building my own since 2008). In that span, I had many minor upgrades and 3 entirely new from-scratch builds. I could not imagine it any other way. For my laptops though, I never bothered. I want something that “just works” when I’m on-the-go, it’s fine if it’s not new hardware as I won’t game on them, and my primary concern is how light they are. And then a few years ago I got the iPad Pro which became my only device I’d take while traveling.

sixothree 10mo ago

I just wish they would introduce a TKL layout. I don't use laptop keyboard because during development I rely on the navigation key combos. Think control-shift-home or shift-arrow, or control-pagedown. And it's disappointing because Framework is the _perfect_ company to offer such an option.

konaraddi 10mo ago

I think the author is the target customer for Framework. A customer looking for a ship of Theseus laptop that the seller stands by. I’ve looked at framework as a potential next laptop but it’s expensive, some of parts are expensive, and the other parts I’m not sure I’ve ever had issues with in past laptops. I think I’m better off buying multiple used thinkpads over the course of my life, or even a used MBP (refurbished m4 MBP goes for ~$1.3K from Apple, base configuration w/ 16GB ram for framework 13 is ~1.2K), than a Framework; the thinkpads would be cheaper and more eco friendly with good build quality. I’m not looking for a ship of Theseus laptop, I’m just looking for something that works a long time, is good enough, and I want to keep my lifetime expenditure on hardware on the lower side. I look at my laptop cost as upfront cost divided by number of years I expect to use it for and I have a spreadsheet with past laptops (and phones) tracking historical usage and costs to better inform my next purchase. Framework looks attractive but the costs don’t seem to align with my goal.

SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
I’m own a FW13 and I have bought ~4 for employees. I doubt I will order more. We’ve had small and large issues. My Linux machine will drain the battery completely if you don’t perform a full shutdown, and even then the quiescent drain is too high and I can expect it to be dead in a week. The dream of repairability is great, but the reality just isn’t there. That said, I was able to replace a damaged screen with no effort at all. A far cry from the MS Surface I had previously, but any vendor could sell a screen or keyboard without the “full modularity” that FW pushes.
- yaro330 10mo ago
  Apparently Surface laptops come with stellar repair guides now, and they improved repairability greatly. MS doing something nice for once?
  - SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
    Counterpoint… the battery is superglued to the chassis and to replace for my model was STEP 53, and that was to scrape the old battery off and glue the new one in, then 53 steps backwards to re-assemble.

EbNar 10mo ago

> You can't change the RAM on laptops now. > You can't change the SSD on laptops now. > You can't easily repair the screen on laptops now. I can do all of that on my Thinkpad E14.

nona 10mo ago

I want to like framework, but whenever I've seen one of them in person I was pretty disappointed about the case/chassis. And the touchpad. For me personally, weight doesn't matter that much, and neither does configurability (I guess by now they have data on the most popular port choices for example). But size (as small/minimal as possible for a given screen and keyboard size – minimal bezels for both) and strength (no flex, solid hinge) do matter to me. I understand these two things conflict with themselves, and with the framework's repairability and configurability. Still, I'd like to see some true innovation there. I'm just afraid they painted themselves into a corner with their current mainboard design, and won't be able to diverge from that to bring us something truly solid yet compact and repairable.

deleted 10mo ago

[deleted]

GavinNewsom 10mo ago

[flagged]

phlipski 10mo ago

I've had a Framework 13 for 20 months now. AMD Ryzen™ 5 7640U w/ 32GB DDR4. Running Ubuntu. I love it. My only complaint/request: USB-C for power should be build into the chassis and not require a modular port. You get 4 ports to mix things like usb/hdmi/sd-card, etc... 1 of the 4 is always using the usb-c for power.

outlore 10mo ago

I've been wistfully watching people enjoy Framework Laptop from the sidelines for years now. One doubt that has always plagued me: realistically how long can the backwards compatibility for new improvements last? Surely there must be some point where a new processor, or chassis, or airflow improvement must necessitate the complete reconfiguration of the laptop internals or would be just plain unsupported? I don't have background in industrial design or electrical engineering so I've never been able to lay these doubts to rest.

mixmastamyk 10mo ago
We know how to make laptops now, and the framework is fine. A major development, like Apple-level power efficiency would require less airflow than x64. Don’t think there’s anything major to worry about. May need the 16 for pro-level local LLMs for a while.

dang 10mo ago

Recent and probably related: I'm returning my Framework 16 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46375174 - Dec 2025 (576 comments)

yaro330 10mo ago

As someone not swimming in piles of cash, I can't bring myself to get a framework laptop. Ironically enough, new ThinkPads, which are on sale pretty regularly, end up being much nicer, solidly built, more performant, and with an awesome warranty, even in my shithole region.

binarycrusader 10mo ago

Yes, eccentric, but this thread linked from the post is the real winner: https://community.frame.work/t/the-snack-drawer-store-now-made-with-real-snacks/43101 https://community.frame.work/t/the-snack-drawer-store-now-ma...

commandersaki 10mo ago

I wonder how much of a laptop weirdo you would be if you didn't have other desktops or laptops to rely upon.

commandersaki 10mo ago

I've posted this about a year ago on another Framework thread. I see a lot of questions from people interested in FW laptops, so I thought my experience may help understand the good and bad. I bought a Framework 13" in 2022, Intel 13th gen with 32GB ram (probably not as stupid as expensive as it is now) and 1TB drive. It has good intentions but falls short. I would say overall it is a mediocre laptop in terms of quality. Will it last longer than any other laptop? I would think so, as it has a strong story of available parts and upgrades. Similarly I believe it would last longer than any other laptop, since you can essentially do a Ship of Theseus with it. Pain points: - display hinge problem, picking up the laptop would make the screen lie flat 180 degrees, which is really annoying - this has been fixed in newer versions of framework, but to get a new hinge kit costs $39 AUD plus $30 AUD in shipping, so I'm not willing to make that purchase due to the ridiculous shipping price, - the modular ports are nice, but I'd rather just have fixed ports and more of them, of course that'd obstruct the repair/modularity story, - sometimes the modular ports do not work after resuming from a hibernate, I have to eject and reseat it, - the display is okay, I notice mine has a small granular line of off coloured pixels - i don't think this is due to any physical damage but rather a defect in the screen as I've never had this kind of issue with any other laptop and I've handled the framework fairly carefully; but this line of off coloured pixels is very faint and virtually unnoticeable unless using very dark colours, so it's not a huge deal as I make it out to be, - the keyboard works great, but I was hoping for an upgrade to something along the lines of an apple style layout with half height inverted-t arrow keys and fn/ctrl swapped; the idea of a marketplace for custom parts never really eventuated save a few niche things like RISC V, - Battery life of about 3-4 hours of very average usage, - Speakers are trash. The webcam / mic are good enough. I run Linux on it, and seems to run pretty stable. I needed this laptop because I needed 32GB of ram for compile jobs (c++ programmers on large projects knows such pain). I have since got a macbook pro 16" with >32GB of ram and it can compile what I need using Rosetta 2 for Linux (so amd64 compiles). Since my mac can now do everything I need, I haven't really touched my Framework; I just keep it spare when I need a bare metal x86-64 in a pinch. I loathe the idea of having to use it over a mac laptop. The good news is since my post a year ago, Apple has since released the m4 chips which allow the Macbook Air range to drive up to two external displays using thunderbolt.

psyclobe 10mo ago

So the 13 is probably a lot better than the new 16 for reasons that... well its simpler, smaller; and a lot more rigid (by virtue of its size). From what I read about the 16 though that sounds like a lot harder of a sell. I'm pretty sure the 13 is still paying Frameworks bills...