3 ms·

I never understood why people claim the Macbook is so good. Bad keyboard, bad aluminium body, soldered ram... Is it just the Apple Silicon that somehow makes

by mgaunard 10mo ago

I never understood why people claim the Macbook is so good. Bad keyboard, bad aluminium body, soldered ram... Is it just the Apple Silicon that somehow makes it worth it? It's ARM, most software is still written and optimized for x86.

inatreecrown2 10mo ago
the screen is very good, the trackpad is very good, the screen does not wobble or bend - it is sturdy. and it is quiet!
mithrilskeleton 10mo ago
Excellent power efficiency in apple silicon - good battery life and good performance at the same time. The aluminum body is also very rigid and premium feeling, unlike so many creaky bendy pc laptops. Good screen, good speakers.
- sagarm 10mo ago
  Aluminum and magnesium non-Apple laptops are just as stiff. There's just a wider spectrum of options, including $200 plastic ARM Chromebooks available.
  - ricardobeat 10mo ago
    Do you have any examples? The top-of-the-line Surface laptops are still comparatively flimsy, same for Samsung and Vaio. What’s better?
brokencode 10mo ago
I’ve never heard someone describe the aluminum body as bad.. what do you not like about it? The number one benefit is the Apple Silicon processors, which are incredibly efficient. Then it’s the trackpad, keyboard and overall build quality for me. Windows laptops often just feel cheap by comparison. Or they’ll have perplexing design problems, like whatever is going on with Dell laptops these days with the capacitive function row and borderless trackpad.
spankibalt 10mo ago
> "I never understood why people claim the Macbook is so good." Apple's good enough for the average consumer, just like a 16-bit home computer back in the day. Everyone who looks for something bespoke/specialized (e. g. certified dual- or multi-OS support, ECC-RAM, right-to-repair, top-class flicker-free displays, size, etc.) looks elsewhere, of course.
rsync 10mo ago
"... bad aluminium body ..." Would you elaborate ? I believe there are a few all-metal laptops competing in the marketplace but was unaware they were actually better than the apple laptops ... what all aluminum laptops are better and how are they better ?
- mgaunard 10mo ago
  why would you want a laptop being made of metal? it's a stylistic choice, not a logical one.
  - browningstreet 10mo ago
    Strawman. Because Apple designed it well. Metal’s not an issue. My legacy 2013 MacBook Air still looks and feels and opens like new. I was looking at Thinkpad Auras today. There are unaligned jutting design edges all over the thing. From a design perspective, I’ll take the smooth oblong squashed egg. Every PC laptop I’ve touched feels terrible to hold and carry. And they run Windows, and Linux only okay. Apple MacBooks are a long mile better than everything else and so I don’t care about upgraded memory — buy enough ram at purchase time and you don’t have to think about it again. Memory upgrades aren’t priced super well, granted, but I could never buy HP Dell Lenovo ever again. They’re terrible. I’ve had all of them. Ironically the best device I’ve had from the other side was a Surface Laptop. But I don’t do Microsoft anymore. And I don’t want to carry squeaky squishy bendy plastic. Most of all, I’m never getting on a customer support call with the outsourced vendors that do the support for those companies ever ever ever again. I’ll take a visit to an Apple store every day of the week.
    - esseph 10mo ago
      I've had 4 Lenovos and out of the Asus, Dell, HP, Panasonic, and Sony laptops I've had, they always seem to have excellent Linux support.
      - browningstreet 10mo ago
        My team is going through a lot of pain right now with new Lenovo Aura laptops. But I haven’t had a chance to Linux-ify them.
Philpax 10mo ago
The keyboard and body are not bad at all - rather, they're best in class, and so is the rest of the hardware. It is a premium hardware experience, and has been since Jony Ive left, which is what makes the software so disappointing.
palata 10mo ago
> Is it just the Apple Silicon that somehow makes it worth it? It's ARM, most software is still written and optimized for x86. I am very much a Linux person. But the battery life with macOS on the Apple Silicon is absolutely insane.
- Greed 10mo ago
  Yes, this is the true dividing factor for me. The battery life of the new ARM laptops is an astounding upgrade from any device I have ever used. I've been a reluctant MacBook user for 15 years now thanks to it being the de-facto hardware of tech, but for the first time ever since adopting first the M1 Pro and then an M2 Pro I find myself thinking: I could not possibly justify buying literally any other laptop so long as this standard exists. Being able to run serious developer workflows silently (full kubernetes clusters, compilers, VSCode, multitudes of corpo office suite products etc), for multiple days at a time on a single charge is baffling. And if I leave it closed for a week at 80% battery, not only does that percentage remain nearly the same when resumed-- it wakes instantly! No hibernation wake time shenanigans. The only class of device which even comes close to being comparable are high end e-ink readers, and an e-ink reader STILL loses on wake time by comparison. I'm at the point now where I'm desperately in need of an upgrade for my 8 year old personal laptop, but I'm holding off indefinitely until I discover something with a similar level of battery performance that can run Linux. As I understand it, the firmware that supports that insane battery life and specifically the suspend functionality that allows it to draw nearly zero power when closed isn't supported by any Linux distro or I would have already purchased another MacBook for personal use.
- ActorNightly 10mo ago
  >But the battery life with macOS on the Apple Silicon is absolutely insane. Run a lightweight DE like i3wm with any modern thinkpad and you will get similar usable battery life of around 6-8 hours. Generally though, battery life isn't an issue anymore considering fast charging is everywhere.
  - palata 10mo ago
    I am running Sway on a Gentoo on a 4 years old X1 carbon. > you will get similar usable battery life of around 6-8 hours My macbook M3 gives me way more than 6-8 hours, it's simply insane. It literallly lasts for multiple days. > Generally though, battery life isn't an issue anymore considering fast charging is everywhere. Not an issue indeed, I got used to always charging my X1 carbon. But then I got an M3 for work, and... well it feels like I don't have to charge it ever :-). As I said: very much a Linux person, but the M3 battery life is absolutely insane.
Telaneo 10mo ago
If the Macbook has a bad keyboard (ignoring the Butterfly switches, which aren't on any of the M series machines, which are the ones people actually recommend and praise), then the vast majority of Windows machine have truly atrocious keyboards. I prefer the keyboard on my 2012 Macbook to the newer ones, but it's still better than the Windows machines I can test in local stores. I prefer the aluminium to the plastic found on most Windows machines. The Framework is made from some aluminium alloy from what I know, and I see that as a good thing. The soldered RAM sucks, but it's a trade-off I'm willing to make for a touchpad that actually works, a pretty good screen, and battery life that doesn't suck.
trueno 10mo ago
Feel like these critiques are 10 years old.
- zapzupnz 10mo ago
  I'd understand this about the 2016 MacBooks with the butterfly switch keyboards. I don't understand this in 2025.
ralphc 10mo ago
Rarely mentioned is the audio, the Mac's bass and overall sound is much better than any other laptop its size.
- lostlogin 10mo ago
  Right now I’m sitting in front of a hotel tv with speakers that are so crap that we are putting the sound through the MacBook to improve things.
IOT_Apprentice 10mo ago
It sounds like you have not tried a M series laptop in the last 3 years. Shrug.
- zapzupnz 10mo ago
  Last 5.
alluro2 10mo ago
I adore my Linux setup and have switched back to it after using M1 Pro for 3 years. But through all the Dells, Thinkpads and Asus laptops I've had (~10), none were remotely close to a full package that MBP M1 Pro was. - Performance - outstanding - Fan noise - non-existent 99% of the time, cannot compare to any other laptop I had - Battery - not as amazing as people claim for my usage, but still at least 30% better - Screen, touchpad, speakers, chassis - all highest tier; some PC laptops do screen (Asus OLED), keyboard and chassis (Thinkpad) better, but nothing groundbreaking... It's the only laptop I've ever had that gave me a feeling that there is nothing that could come my way, and I wouldn't be able to do on it, without any drama whatsoever. It's just too bad that I can't run multiple external displays on Asahi... (For posterity, currently using Asus Zenbook S16, Ryzen HX370, 32GB RAM, OLED screen, was $1700 - looks and feels amazing, screen is great, performance is solid - but I'm driving it hard, so fan noise is constant, battery lasts shorter, and it's just a bit more "drama" than with MBP)
- akdev1l 10mo ago
  iirc M1 just cannot do multiple displays at all :-( A modern M4 should tho

inatreecrown2 10mo ago

the screen is very good, the trackpad is very good, the screen does not wobble or bend - it is sturdy. and it is quiet!

mithrilskeleton 10mo ago

Excellent power efficiency in apple silicon - good battery life and good performance at the same time. The aluminum body is also very rigid and premium feeling, unlike so many creaky bendy pc laptops. Good screen, good speakers.

sagarm 10mo ago
Aluminum and magnesium non-Apple laptops are just as stiff. There's just a wider spectrum of options, including $200 plastic ARM Chromebooks available.
- ricardobeat 10mo ago
  Do you have any examples? The top-of-the-line Surface laptops are still comparatively flimsy, same for Samsung and Vaio. What’s better?

brokencode 10mo ago

I’ve never heard someone describe the aluminum body as bad.. what do you not like about it? The number one benefit is the Apple Silicon processors, which are incredibly efficient. Then it’s the trackpad, keyboard and overall build quality for me. Windows laptops often just feel cheap by comparison. Or they’ll have perplexing design problems, like whatever is going on with Dell laptops these days with the capacitive function row and borderless trackpad.

spankibalt 10mo ago

> "I never understood why people claim the Macbook is so good." Apple's good enough for the average consumer, just like a 16-bit home computer back in the day. Everyone who looks for something bespoke/specialized (e. g. certified dual- or multi-OS support, ECC-RAM, right-to-repair, top-class flicker-free displays, size, etc.) looks elsewhere, of course.

rsync 10mo ago

"... bad aluminium body ..." Would you elaborate ? I believe there are a few all-metal laptops competing in the marketplace but was unaware they were actually better than the apple laptops ... what all aluminum laptops are better and how are they better ?

mgaunard 10mo ago
why would you want a laptop being made of metal? it's a stylistic choice, not a logical one.
- browningstreet 10mo ago
  Strawman. Because Apple designed it well. Metal’s not an issue. My legacy 2013 MacBook Air still looks and feels and opens like new. I was looking at Thinkpad Auras today. There are unaligned jutting design edges all over the thing. From a design perspective, I’ll take the smooth oblong squashed egg. Every PC laptop I’ve touched feels terrible to hold and carry. And they run Windows, and Linux only okay. Apple MacBooks are a long mile better than everything else and so I don’t care about upgraded memory — buy enough ram at purchase time and you don’t have to think about it again. Memory upgrades aren’t priced super well, granted, but I could never buy HP Dell Lenovo ever again. They’re terrible. I’ve had all of them. Ironically the best device I’ve had from the other side was a Surface Laptop. But I don’t do Microsoft anymore. And I don’t want to carry squeaky squishy bendy plastic. Most of all, I’m never getting on a customer support call with the outsourced vendors that do the support for those companies ever ever ever again. I’ll take a visit to an Apple store every day of the week.
  - esseph 10mo ago
    I've had 4 Lenovos and out of the Asus, Dell, HP, Panasonic, and Sony laptops I've had, they always seem to have excellent Linux support.
    - browningstreet 10mo ago
      My team is going through a lot of pain right now with new Lenovo Aura laptops. But I haven’t had a chance to Linux-ify them.

Philpax 10mo ago

The keyboard and body are not bad at all - rather, they're best in class, and so is the rest of the hardware. It is a premium hardware experience, and has been since Jony Ive left, which is what makes the software so disappointing.

palata 10mo ago

> Is it just the Apple Silicon that somehow makes it worth it? It's ARM, most software is still written and optimized for x86. I am very much a Linux person. But the battery life with macOS on the Apple Silicon is absolutely insane.

Greed 10mo ago
Yes, this is the true dividing factor for me. The battery life of the new ARM laptops is an astounding upgrade from any device I have ever used. I've been a reluctant MacBook user for 15 years now thanks to it being the de-facto hardware of tech, but for the first time ever since adopting first the M1 Pro and then an M2 Pro I find myself thinking: I could not possibly justify buying literally any other laptop so long as this standard exists. Being able to run serious developer workflows silently (full kubernetes clusters, compilers, VSCode, multitudes of corpo office suite products etc), for multiple days at a time on a single charge is baffling. And if I leave it closed for a week at 80% battery, not only does that percentage remain nearly the same when resumed-- it wakes instantly! No hibernation wake time shenanigans. The only class of device which even comes close to being comparable are high end e-ink readers, and an e-ink reader STILL loses on wake time by comparison. I'm at the point now where I'm desperately in need of an upgrade for my 8 year old personal laptop, but I'm holding off indefinitely until I discover something with a similar level of battery performance that can run Linux. As I understand it, the firmware that supports that insane battery life and specifically the suspend functionality that allows it to draw nearly zero power when closed isn't supported by any Linux distro or I would have already purchased another MacBook for personal use.
ActorNightly 10mo ago
>But the battery life with macOS on the Apple Silicon is absolutely insane. Run a lightweight DE like i3wm with any modern thinkpad and you will get similar usable battery life of around 6-8 hours. Generally though, battery life isn't an issue anymore considering fast charging is everywhere.
- palata 10mo ago
  I am running Sway on a Gentoo on a 4 years old X1 carbon. > you will get similar usable battery life of around 6-8 hours My macbook M3 gives me way more than 6-8 hours, it's simply insane. It literallly lasts for multiple days. > Generally though, battery life isn't an issue anymore considering fast charging is everywhere. Not an issue indeed, I got used to always charging my X1 carbon. But then I got an M3 for work, and... well it feels like I don't have to charge it ever :-). As I said: very much a Linux person, but the M3 battery life is absolutely insane.

Telaneo 10mo ago

If the Macbook has a bad keyboard (ignoring the Butterfly switches, which aren't on any of the M series machines, which are the ones people actually recommend and praise), then the vast majority of Windows machine have truly atrocious keyboards. I prefer the keyboard on my 2012 Macbook to the newer ones, but it's still better than the Windows machines I can test in local stores. I prefer the aluminium to the plastic found on most Windows machines. The Framework is made from some aluminium alloy from what I know, and I see that as a good thing. The soldered RAM sucks, but it's a trade-off I'm willing to make for a touchpad that actually works, a pretty good screen, and battery life that doesn't suck.

trueno 10mo ago

Feel like these critiques are 10 years old.

zapzupnz 10mo ago
I'd understand this about the 2016 MacBooks with the butterfly switch keyboards. I don't understand this in 2025.

ralphc 10mo ago

Rarely mentioned is the audio, the Mac's bass and overall sound is much better than any other laptop its size.

lostlogin 10mo ago
Right now I’m sitting in front of a hotel tv with speakers that are so crap that we are putting the sound through the MacBook to improve things.

IOT_Apprentice 10mo ago

It sounds like you have not tried a M series laptop in the last 3 years. Shrug.

zapzupnz 10mo ago
Last 5.

alluro2 10mo ago

I adore my Linux setup and have switched back to it after using M1 Pro for 3 years. But through all the Dells, Thinkpads and Asus laptops I've had (~10), none were remotely close to a full package that MBP M1 Pro was. - Performance - outstanding - Fan noise - non-existent 99% of the time, cannot compare to any other laptop I had - Battery - not as amazing as people claim for my usage, but still at least 30% better - Screen, touchpad, speakers, chassis - all highest tier; some PC laptops do screen (Asus OLED), keyboard and chassis (Thinkpad) better, but nothing groundbreaking... It's the only laptop I've ever had that gave me a feeling that there is nothing that could come my way, and I wouldn't be able to do on it, without any drama whatsoever. It's just too bad that I can't run multiple external displays on Asahi... (For posterity, currently using Asus Zenbook S16, Ryzen HX370, 32GB RAM, OLED screen, was $1700 - looks and feels amazing, screen is great, performance is solid - but I'm driving it hard, so fan noise is constant, battery lasts shorter, and it's just a bit more "drama" than with MBP)

akdev1l 10mo ago
iirc M1 just cannot do multiple displays at all :-( A modern M4 should tho