4 ms·

Accessibility? Sure. Everything else? Nah, I'm sorry. There are countless ways to do remoting with Wayland. There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing.

superkuh 10mo ago
>There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing. You realize that's worse, right? And to be clearer: core Wayland protocol does not have countless ways. It has zero. Instead of a single protocol with the strong X11 reference X server the wayland compositors pick and choose between libinput, or libei, or libportal with the InputCapture PR, xdg-desktop-portal with the InputCapture interface, some I've probably missed, or maybe you have nothing at all (weston). It's a gamble if your choice of desktop environment and it's wayland compositor's non-core wayland protocols will match up with those the developer for $software chose. On X11 linux everything that works somewhere works everywhere. With the various waylands if you stay within your desktop's ecosystem you'll probably not notice, but go beyond it and you will. Each wayland desktop pretty much runs it's own compositor with it's own set of third party libs because the wayland core protocol spec is very minimal. I would say incomplete. ref: https://wayland.app/protocols/ https://wayland.app/protocols/
- imtringued 10mo ago
  The point of the protocol spec being minimal is that it enables a wide variety of implementations, something it definitely succeeded at. I still don't know how people twist this obvious success into a failure.
  - LeFantome 10mo ago
    Xorg fans reverse all the normal Open Source logic. Imagine we were talking about web browsers… There should only be one! No security makes all my extensions work!
    - XorNot 10mo ago
      Imagine if web browsers all had mutually incompatible DOM implementations for basic functionalities. That's the situation with Wayland that people are complaining about. I don't need innovation in keyboard and mouse sharing, I need it to work.
    - rcxdude 10mo ago
      I mean, at least with web browsers they usually converge on a common spec eventually, and most of the time you just have a bit stupid repetition in your CSS for a bit. Wayland compositors seem to be actively against this kind of process.
    - superkuh 10mo ago
      It's a very forced comparison trying to swap in the web's security model, where one runs untrusted code from arbitrary third parties automatically, for a personal desktop computer context where a single user is in complete control.
    - account42 9mo ago
      If anything, Wayland is designed for closed appliances. The free software ecosystem does not need to distrust applications.
  - superkuh 10mo ago
    Uh... lived experience? Try getting keyboard and mouse sharing working across all the waylands with the same software. Not having most of the features in the standard implementation leads to fragmentation which apparently you haven't run into with your use cases yet.
  - rcxdude 10mo ago
    That wide variety of implementations is a big part of the problem!
MrDrMcCoy 10mo ago
I love Wayland a lot, but as far as I can tell the available remoting solutions still cannot enable a headless LXC container to serve a KDE Plasma Wayland desktop. I spent the last couple days trying to cobble some solution together for it and failed miserably. If you know a way, I would be most grateful :-)
- LeFantome 10mo ago
  Me too!
lelanthran 10mo ago
> There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing. Wait, what? I tried this last year. I didn't find any way to do this that wasn't dependent on the WM.

superkuh 10mo ago

>There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing. You realize that's worse, right? And to be clearer: core Wayland protocol does not have countless ways. It has zero. Instead of a single protocol with the strong X11 reference X server the wayland compositors pick and choose between libinput, or libei, or libportal with the InputCapture PR, xdg-desktop-portal with the InputCapture interface, some I've probably missed, or maybe you have nothing at all (weston). It's a gamble if your choice of desktop environment and it's wayland compositor's non-core wayland protocols will match up with those the developer for $software chose. On X11 linux everything that works somewhere works everywhere. With the various waylands if you stay within your desktop's ecosystem you'll probably not notice, but go beyond it and you will. Each wayland desktop pretty much runs it's own compositor with it's own set of third party libs because the wayland core protocol spec is very minimal. I would say incomplete. ref: https://wayland.app/protocols/ https://wayland.app/protocols/

imtringued 10mo ago
The point of the protocol spec being minimal is that it enables a wide variety of implementations, something it definitely succeeded at. I still don't know how people twist this obvious success into a failure.
- LeFantome 10mo ago
  Xorg fans reverse all the normal Open Source logic. Imagine we were talking about web browsers… There should only be one! No security makes all my extensions work!
  - XorNot 10mo ago
    Imagine if web browsers all had mutually incompatible DOM implementations for basic functionalities. That's the situation with Wayland that people are complaining about. I don't need innovation in keyboard and mouse sharing, I need it to work.
  - rcxdude 10mo ago
    I mean, at least with web browsers they usually converge on a common spec eventually, and most of the time you just have a bit stupid repetition in your CSS for a bit. Wayland compositors seem to be actively against this kind of process.
  - superkuh 10mo ago
    It's a very forced comparison trying to swap in the web's security model, where one runs untrusted code from arbitrary third parties automatically, for a personal desktop computer context where a single user is in complete control.
  - account42 9mo ago
    If anything, Wayland is designed for closed appliances. The free software ecosystem does not need to distrust applications.
- superkuh 10mo ago
  Uh... lived experience? Try getting keyboard and mouse sharing working across all the waylands with the same software. Not having most of the features in the standard implementation leads to fragmentation which apparently you haven't run into with your use cases yet.
- rcxdude 10mo ago
  That wide variety of implementations is a big part of the problem!

MrDrMcCoy 10mo ago

I love Wayland a lot, but as far as I can tell the available remoting solutions still cannot enable a headless LXC container to serve a KDE Plasma Wayland desktop. I spent the last couple days trying to cobble some solution together for it and failed miserably. If you know a way, I would be most grateful :-)

LeFantome 10mo ago
Me too!

lelanthran 10mo ago

> There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing. Wait, what? I tried this last year. I didn't find any way to do this that wasn't dependent on the WM.