5 ms·

Be careful with the "debloat" features in scripts like this. In my experience, aggressively stripping out AppX packages and disabling services often breaks wind

by Fiveplus 10mo ago

Be careful with the "debloat" features in scripts like this. In my experience, aggressively stripping out AppX packages and disabling services often breaks windows update or the Microsoft store in subtle ways that don't manifest until 3-6 months down the line. You'll eventually try to install a feature update, it will fail with a cryptic error code, and you'll realize it's because you removed a dependency that the new update expects to be present. If you really want a clean windows environment, you are better off getting an IoT enterprise LTSC license. It is boring, stable, has zero bloat and doesn't require hacking the registry to stop candy crush from reinstalling itself. That said, it feels like a constant arms race. Microsoft introduces a new user-hostile pattern (like making local accounts harder to create), the community builds a workaround and then Microsoft patches the workaround. I am tired of fighting my own OS.

LoganDark 10mo ago
Apple was a great option before they moved to ARM. Now they can't run much of anything (and it sucks). I still have my mid-2015 MBP running triple-boot between macOS, Windows and Arch Linux. That machine could run everything... I now have to keep around a physical PC desktop in order to run games like ARC Raiders. I use OBS with a capture card to use my MacBook's screen as a monitor for the PC, and an application called Deskflow to forward the MacBook's keyboard to the PC (I connect the mouse directly). Also, SonoBus for voice chat, since the PC doesn't have a microphone built-in. It works well enough.
- nottorp 10mo ago
  Tried Moonlight/Sunshine? Works for me without any extra hardware. Just a network connection between the machines. Haven't tried voice chat though. Edit: Steam streaming works pretty well too, but feels a tiny bit more laggy than the above. Also running non Steam games is a bit of a pain.
  - LoganDark 10mo ago
    Using the capture card allows me to avoid compression artifacts and a majority of network congestion (and get 120Hz!), and connecting the mouse directly eliminates additional latency and jitter. The keyboard still suffers from it, but in a shooter (like, say, ARC Raiders) mouse input is definitely most important - I can deal with a slight keyboard delay. I may still look into those for the keyboard input, but the only improvement I foresee really making is getting Ethernet for the MacBook (I moved my one line to the PC since the MacBook's Wi-Fi is so much better). Haven't decided between a passive or active switch yet.
- vladvasiliu 10mo ago
  > Apple was a great option before they moved to ARM. Now they can't run much of anything (and it sucks). I used to love my 2013 MBP. ARM Macs run pretty much everything I need, and some things better than Windows (such as Lightroom and PS which don't run at all on Linux). But what kills it for me is the absolutely bonkers window management, and the fisher-price interface filling up half the screen with empty space around huge widgets.
  - LoganDark 10mo ago
    I really hope they dial back Liquid Glass after the guy who ruined it all left. I love the glass effect itself, but the rest of the design could use a lot of work.
- seec 9mo ago
  As someone who sarted with Apple in the PowerPC days I couldn't agree more. To me it seems like the only real advantage is good battery, but I can't figure out who exactly is running powerfull/complicated software on the go where it matters. If you just need to browse the web and whatnot, just get a cheap tablet? For all the good softwares, it seems like you just get much better performance out of a much lowered priced PC. I just don't get who is benifiting for the 1-2 hours of supplementary runtime out of a MacBook and this is wortht the price delta as well as the hassle of dealing with all the specificity of that software implementation. But then again, my experience with Apple users is that they are not the most logical peoples around, so maybe that's just it. I still like some parts of macOS but it has been very hard to justify considering how Apple has been behaving lately. If Apple manages to produce a decent iMac soon enough, it might just bite the bullet once again, but otherwise I'm out.
huflungdung 10mo ago
[dead]
buybackoff 10mo ago
Agreed. I had to run Windows recovery only once over the last 5+ years, after running some debloating script with many thousands stars on GitHub. I think the Pro version is enough for reasonable experience, most of the terrible stories originate from the Home version, which should be avoided like the plague.
- bluecalm 10mo ago
  I've spent several days trying to get Pro version to usable state. By usable I mean that it doesn't kill my work session because some random app I've never installed, used or asked for fails its auto-update in the middle of the day and kills the WSL process. It still has magically resetting settings so if you are not careful telemetry/ads/spying will be back on the menu. It still has hostile settings to keep your computer connected when it sleeps which are very hard to turn off. There are multiple settings in Windows that are hidden which only appear in the menu when you add a registry entry. There are so many anti-patterns in Windows it feels like defending against a determined hacker who tries to make your life worse and is hunting for a slight misstep to turn the shit back on.
  - buybackoff 10mo ago
    Group Policy Edit is the way to restrict many things. Disabling automatic updates helps. I have had forced reboots very rarely, I believe that were severe vulnerability fixes. But my use case is never 24/7, I hibernate it overnight and every time I leave for longer than going to a grocery shop, and I have several Proxmox boxes with proper OSes for hosting stuff. Windows + WSL is my dev/media/web/files/OneDrive machine, a compact silent SFF box that is powerful enough for 90+% of my daily tasks. Lately I try Linux Desktop on Fedora/Ubuntu with every major version, however RDP server and secure boot that I can trust to work and not break myself - these things remain unsatisfactory.
    - bluecalm 10mo ago
      I disabled auto updates by pinning the target version in group policy and then finding some hacks on the web to make it always ask before download. I've run many other random scripts and then found Windhawk to remove more annoyances (taskbar and sections of start menu). I then shut down more things and disabled Bluetooth on lock. It is now usable and doesn't crash but feels very fragile. I will soon face dilemma of allowing "feature" updates or be out of security ones.
snarfy 10mo ago
I'm installing Linux over the break. The last time I seriously ran it was Slackware 2.0. If it doesn't run in Wine, it will run in a vm. I'm so done with this shit. And I'm one of the few that actually purchased a Win11 Pro license at full price. I really wanted to believe. They've lost their mind with copilot. Imagine if they put as much effort into making their products better as they have pushing copilot. The sad thing is there will be a copilot hit, and it won't be anything they built with all this effort. It will be an acquisition, like openai. They should just stick to making their products better and buy it when it comes.
- anal_reactor 10mo ago
  I switched to Fedora KDE. It's still has many linuxisms along "bluetooth doesn't work" but if you have some basic IT knowledge, "we're already here". I wouldn't recommend it to a non-IT person though.
  - _thisdot 10mo ago
    What about Ubuntu though? I haven't used used Ubuntu since I switched to MacOS a few years back. But I would suggest that to even non-IT people
    - anal_reactor 10mo ago
      It's not only about the happy path working, it's also about the user being able to figure out the sad path.
  - tracker1 10mo ago
    BT largely comes down to the chipset, fortunately this is a user swappable device is most computers and laptops.
Krssst 10mo ago
> If you really want a clean windows environment, you are better off getting an IoT enterprise LTSC license. Unfortunately seems like there's no way of getting a license legally without being a company. Windows Server seems easier to obtain but harder to morph into something useful (mostly because of missing drivers on Windows Update) though definitely possible.
- vladvasiliu 10mo ago
  As I understand it, even for companies it's non-trivial. There seems to be some kind of relation to specific hardware.
31337Logic 10mo ago
Gee. You make it sound like breaking Microsoft Store and Windows Updates are /bad/ things. :-/
- breakingcups 9mo ago
  Breaking Windows Updates is a bad thing, security-wise.
mycall 10mo ago
So look at the dependency tree and add back what is missing. We are hackers here afterall.
farbklang 10mo ago
The ultimate way of installing windows least bloated is chosing Region "English (World)" - as usually the bloatware is country specific. Avoid US, UK, etc. That's where the Candy Crush comes with.
john01dav 10mo ago
> I am tired of fighting my own OS. People cite bugs or incompatible software on Linux as a reason to avoid it and use Windows, but they fail to recgonize that Windows actively fights you. I'd take something that's slightly and mistakenly broken on an utterly open platform where I can fix it if I care enough over a closed platform that's actively trying to screw me over.

LoganDark 10mo ago

Apple was a great option before they moved to ARM. Now they can't run much of anything (and it sucks). I still have my mid-2015 MBP running triple-boot between macOS, Windows and Arch Linux. That machine could run everything... I now have to keep around a physical PC desktop in order to run games like ARC Raiders. I use OBS with a capture card to use my MacBook's screen as a monitor for the PC, and an application called Deskflow to forward the MacBook's keyboard to the PC (I connect the mouse directly). Also, SonoBus for voice chat, since the PC doesn't have a microphone built-in. It works well enough.

nottorp 10mo ago
Tried Moonlight/Sunshine? Works for me without any extra hardware. Just a network connection between the machines. Haven't tried voice chat though. Edit: Steam streaming works pretty well too, but feels a tiny bit more laggy than the above. Also running non Steam games is a bit of a pain.
- LoganDark 10mo ago
  Using the capture card allows me to avoid compression artifacts and a majority of network congestion (and get 120Hz!), and connecting the mouse directly eliminates additional latency and jitter. The keyboard still suffers from it, but in a shooter (like, say, ARC Raiders) mouse input is definitely most important - I can deal with a slight keyboard delay. I may still look into those for the keyboard input, but the only improvement I foresee really making is getting Ethernet for the MacBook (I moved my one line to the PC since the MacBook's Wi-Fi is so much better). Haven't decided between a passive or active switch yet.
vladvasiliu 10mo ago
> Apple was a great option before they moved to ARM. Now they can't run much of anything (and it sucks). I used to love my 2013 MBP. ARM Macs run pretty much everything I need, and some things better than Windows (such as Lightroom and PS which don't run at all on Linux). But what kills it for me is the absolutely bonkers window management, and the fisher-price interface filling up half the screen with empty space around huge widgets.
- LoganDark 10mo ago
  I really hope they dial back Liquid Glass after the guy who ruined it all left. I love the glass effect itself, but the rest of the design could use a lot of work.
seec 9mo ago
As someone who sarted with Apple in the PowerPC days I couldn't agree more. To me it seems like the only real advantage is good battery, but I can't figure out who exactly is running powerfull/complicated software on the go where it matters. If you just need to browse the web and whatnot, just get a cheap tablet? For all the good softwares, it seems like you just get much better performance out of a much lowered priced PC. I just don't get who is benifiting for the 1-2 hours of supplementary runtime out of a MacBook and this is wortht the price delta as well as the hassle of dealing with all the specificity of that software implementation. But then again, my experience with Apple users is that they are not the most logical peoples around, so maybe that's just it. I still like some parts of macOS but it has been very hard to justify considering how Apple has been behaving lately. If Apple manages to produce a decent iMac soon enough, it might just bite the bullet once again, but otherwise I'm out.

huflungdung 10mo ago

[dead]

buybackoff 10mo ago

Agreed. I had to run Windows recovery only once over the last 5+ years, after running some debloating script with many thousands stars on GitHub. I think the Pro version is enough for reasonable experience, most of the terrible stories originate from the Home version, which should be avoided like the plague.

bluecalm 10mo ago
I've spent several days trying to get Pro version to usable state. By usable I mean that it doesn't kill my work session because some random app I've never installed, used or asked for fails its auto-update in the middle of the day and kills the WSL process. It still has magically resetting settings so if you are not careful telemetry/ads/spying will be back on the menu. It still has hostile settings to keep your computer connected when it sleeps which are very hard to turn off. There are multiple settings in Windows that are hidden which only appear in the menu when you add a registry entry. There are so many anti-patterns in Windows it feels like defending against a determined hacker who tries to make your life worse and is hunting for a slight misstep to turn the shit back on.
- buybackoff 10mo ago
  Group Policy Edit is the way to restrict many things. Disabling automatic updates helps. I have had forced reboots very rarely, I believe that were severe vulnerability fixes. But my use case is never 24/7, I hibernate it overnight and every time I leave for longer than going to a grocery shop, and I have several Proxmox boxes with proper OSes for hosting stuff. Windows + WSL is my dev/media/web/files/OneDrive machine, a compact silent SFF box that is powerful enough for 90+% of my daily tasks. Lately I try Linux Desktop on Fedora/Ubuntu with every major version, however RDP server and secure boot that I can trust to work and not break myself - these things remain unsatisfactory.
  - bluecalm 10mo ago
    I disabled auto updates by pinning the target version in group policy and then finding some hacks on the web to make it always ask before download. I've run many other random scripts and then found Windhawk to remove more annoyances (taskbar and sections of start menu). I then shut down more things and disabled Bluetooth on lock. It is now usable and doesn't crash but feels very fragile. I will soon face dilemma of allowing "feature" updates or be out of security ones.

snarfy 10mo ago

I'm installing Linux over the break. The last time I seriously ran it was Slackware 2.0. If it doesn't run in Wine, it will run in a vm. I'm so done with this shit. And I'm one of the few that actually purchased a Win11 Pro license at full price. I really wanted to believe. They've lost their mind with copilot. Imagine if they put as much effort into making their products better as they have pushing copilot. The sad thing is there will be a copilot hit, and it won't be anything they built with all this effort. It will be an acquisition, like openai. They should just stick to making their products better and buy it when it comes.

anal_reactor 10mo ago
I switched to Fedora KDE. It's still has many linuxisms along "bluetooth doesn't work" but if you have some basic IT knowledge, "we're already here". I wouldn't recommend it to a non-IT person though.
- _thisdot 10mo ago
  What about Ubuntu though? I haven't used used Ubuntu since I switched to MacOS a few years back. But I would suggest that to even non-IT people
  - anal_reactor 10mo ago
    It's not only about the happy path working, it's also about the user being able to figure out the sad path.
- tracker1 10mo ago
  BT largely comes down to the chipset, fortunately this is a user swappable device is most computers and laptops.

Krssst 10mo ago

> If you really want a clean windows environment, you are better off getting an IoT enterprise LTSC license. Unfortunately seems like there's no way of getting a license legally without being a company. Windows Server seems easier to obtain but harder to morph into something useful (mostly because of missing drivers on Windows Update) though definitely possible.

vladvasiliu 10mo ago
As I understand it, even for companies it's non-trivial. There seems to be some kind of relation to specific hardware.

31337Logic 10mo ago

Gee. You make it sound like breaking Microsoft Store and Windows Updates are /bad/ things. :-/

breakingcups 9mo ago
Breaking Windows Updates is a bad thing, security-wise.

mycall 10mo ago

So look at the dependency tree and add back what is missing. We are hackers here afterall.

farbklang 10mo ago

The ultimate way of installing windows least bloated is chosing Region "English (World)" - as usually the bloatware is country specific. Avoid US, UK, etc. That's where the Candy Crush comes with.

john01dav 10mo ago

> I am tired of fighting my own OS. People cite bugs or incompatible software on Linux as a reason to avoid it and use Windows, but they fail to recgonize that Windows actively fights you. I'd take something that's slightly and mistakenly broken on an utterly open platform where I can fix it if I care enough over a closed platform that's actively trying to screw me over.