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> There are thousands of innocent people being deported. Right, the only crime they committed was entering and remaining in the country illegally. And now they

> There are thousands of innocent people being deported. Right, the only crime they committed was entering and remaining in the country illegally. And now they’re facing deportation by this unjust administration.

estearum 10mo ago
There are plenty of people the administration is trying to deport who neither entered nor remained in the country illegally. For example, Rumeysa Ozturk who was arrested for engaging in 1st Amendment protected speech and put into deportation proceedings despite entering the country legally, staying in the country legally, and breaking none of our country's laws.
- constantcrying 10mo ago
  Do you think that such a deportation would make the US more or less appealing for immigration? After all, every immigrant has to suspect that they might become a target of such an enforcement action as well.
  - estearum 10mo ago
    Of course it would make the US less appealing, which means the immigrants with the most optionality of where to go (like researchers, engineers, and high value contributors in general) are disproportionately likely to seek other destinations. It would have the least deterrent force on those who are already criminal and otherwise lawless or desperate. Back to your claim about this being an "effective" immigration policy: no it's not.
    - constantcrying 10mo ago
      I think it is pretty dishonest how you are asserting that I am making arguments, which I never made. >which means the immigrants with the most optionality of where to go (like researchers, engineers, and high value contributors in general) are disproportionately likely to seek other destinations. >It would have the least deterrent force on those who are already criminal and otherwise lawless or desperate. Completely agree. But I want the "researchers, engineers, and high value contributors" even less than the rest. Those groups are actually harder to remove, they often have institutional support in the form of corporations and other associations and might feasibly be positive fiscal contributors. With "the rest" the argument for deportation is far simpler and has far more support in the population. Also my labor competes with the "researchers, engineers, and high value contributors", while "the rest" only depresses the wages of the proletariat who now have to compete with black market labor.
      - estearum 10mo ago
        Huh? Your original comment was stating that the Trump admin has demonstrated what an effective immigration policy looks like. As for the rest of your comment: lol, lmao even As mentioned in the other thread: mud-farmer zero sum thinking.
  - fzeroracer 10mo ago
    Notably, deporting US citizens would also make the US less appealing for immigration. Would you agree with that? Since fewer people would want to travel to a country where even its own citizens are not safe living there. Considering your other arguments above, I assume you are also volunteering to be one of the people deported from the EU for the sake of making it less appealing for immigration?
    - constantcrying 10mo ago
      I am sure that my vitriol against immigration more than makes up for me (having no "immigration background" at all) continuing to stay in the EU :P
ozozozd 10mo ago
Right leaning Cato Institute’s report states that many had entered legally and had no criminal records in US or in their home countries. In fact, some were granted asylum.
- SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
  A VISA overstay is entering legally. Most deportations per year have always been because of overstay, IDK if that is true this year.
  - estearum 10mo ago
    The Cato article says specifically that nearly half the people they were able to get in touch with didn’t seem to enter illegally OR otherwise violate their immigration status
    - SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
      If your claim is that American citizens are being deported - say that. Don’t hide behind a source you would never use with a vague non-cited claim. If you think this is an issue you should easily be able to find dozens of cases.
      - estearum 10mo ago
        Huh? Do you think the possible legal statuses of people in the US is either “here illegally” or “US citizen?” My claim is quite clear: legal immigrants who have not committed any crime or administrative violations have 1) been deported, 2) without due process, and 3) to a foreign torture camp. Any ONE of those elements is illegal with regard to legal immigrants, and items 2 and 3 are illegal even with regard solely to illegal immigrants. Btw this is not including people whose TPS was canceled and were “made illegal” overnight, of which there are hundreds of thousands now. https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salvador-came-us-legally-never-violated-immigration-law https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salva...

estearum 10mo ago

There are plenty of people the administration is trying to deport who neither entered nor remained in the country illegally. For example, Rumeysa Ozturk who was arrested for engaging in 1st Amendment protected speech and put into deportation proceedings despite entering the country legally, staying in the country legally, and breaking none of our country's laws.

constantcrying 10mo ago
Do you think that such a deportation would make the US more or less appealing for immigration? After all, every immigrant has to suspect that they might become a target of such an enforcement action as well.
- estearum 10mo ago
  Of course it would make the US less appealing, which means the immigrants with the most optionality of where to go (like researchers, engineers, and high value contributors in general) are disproportionately likely to seek other destinations. It would have the least deterrent force on those who are already criminal and otherwise lawless or desperate. Back to your claim about this being an "effective" immigration policy: no it's not.
  - constantcrying 10mo ago
    I think it is pretty dishonest how you are asserting that I am making arguments, which I never made. >which means the immigrants with the most optionality of where to go (like researchers, engineers, and high value contributors in general) are disproportionately likely to seek other destinations. >It would have the least deterrent force on those who are already criminal and otherwise lawless or desperate. Completely agree. But I want the "researchers, engineers, and high value contributors" even less than the rest. Those groups are actually harder to remove, they often have institutional support in the form of corporations and other associations and might feasibly be positive fiscal contributors. With "the rest" the argument for deportation is far simpler and has far more support in the population. Also my labor competes with the "researchers, engineers, and high value contributors", while "the rest" only depresses the wages of the proletariat who now have to compete with black market labor.
    - estearum 10mo ago
      Huh? Your original comment was stating that the Trump admin has demonstrated what an effective immigration policy looks like. As for the rest of your comment: lol, lmao even As mentioned in the other thread: mud-farmer zero sum thinking.
- fzeroracer 10mo ago
  Notably, deporting US citizens would also make the US less appealing for immigration. Would you agree with that? Since fewer people would want to travel to a country where even its own citizens are not safe living there. Considering your other arguments above, I assume you are also volunteering to be one of the people deported from the EU for the sake of making it less appealing for immigration?
  - constantcrying 10mo ago
    I am sure that my vitriol against immigration more than makes up for me (having no "immigration background" at all) continuing to stay in the EU :P

ozozozd 10mo ago

Right leaning Cato Institute’s report states that many had entered legally and had no criminal records in US or in their home countries. In fact, some were granted asylum.

SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
A VISA overstay is entering legally. Most deportations per year have always been because of overstay, IDK if that is true this year.
- estearum 10mo ago
  The Cato article says specifically that nearly half the people they were able to get in touch with didn’t seem to enter illegally OR otherwise violate their immigration status
  - SV_BubbleTime 10mo ago
    If your claim is that American citizens are being deported - say that. Don’t hide behind a source you would never use with a vague non-cited claim. If you think this is an issue you should easily be able to find dozens of cases.
    - estearum 10mo ago
      Huh? Do you think the possible legal statuses of people in the US is either “here illegally” or “US citizen?” My claim is quite clear: legal immigrants who have not committed any crime or administrative violations have 1) been deported, 2) without due process, and 3) to a foreign torture camp. Any ONE of those elements is illegal with regard to legal immigrants, and items 2 and 3 are illegal even with regard solely to illegal immigrants. Btw this is not including people whose TPS was canceled and were “made illegal” overnight, of which there are hundreds of thousands now. https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salvador-came-us-legally-never-violated-immigration-law https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salva...