5 ms·

Let's say there is an architect and he also owns a construction company. This architect, then designs a building and gets it built from of his employees and con

Let's say there is an architect and he also owns a construction company. This architect, then designs a building and gets it built from of his employees and contractors. In such cases the person says, I have built this building. People who found companies, say they have built companies. It's commonly accepted in our society. So even if Claude built for it for GP, as long as GP designed it, paid for tools (Claude) to build it, also tested it to make sure that it works, I personally think, he has right to say he has built it. If you don't like it, you are not required to use it.

greatgib 10mo ago
The architect knows what it is doing. And the workers are professionals with supervisors to check that the work is done properly.
pebble 10mo ago
No, it's more like the architect has a cousin who is like "I totally got this bro" and builds the building for them.
- foobarbecue 10mo ago
  Right and also in this world there are no building codes or building inspections.
testdelacc1 10mo ago
What an outrageously bad analogy. Everyone involved in that building put their professional reputations and licenses on the line. If that building collapses, the people involved will lose their livelihoods and be held criminally liable. Meanwhile this vibe coded nonsense is provided “AS IS”, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. We don’t even know if he read it before committing and pushing.
- pritambarhate 10mo ago
  Even billion dollar software products have similar clauses, it doesn't have anything to do with vibe coding. To build and sell software no educational qualification is needed. Quality of the software comes from testing. Humans and LLMs both make mistakes while coding.
  - tracker1 10mo ago
    As an autodidact, and someone who has seen plenty of well educated idiots in the software profession, I'm happy there are no such requirements... I think a guild might be more reasonable than a professional org more akin to how it works for other groups (lawyers, doctors, etc). There are of course projects that operate at higher development specification standards, often in the military or banking. This should be extended to all vehicles and invasive medical devices.
- tracker1 10mo ago
  Depends on the building type/size/scale and jurisdiction. Modern tract homes are really varied, hit or miss and often don't see any negative outcomes for the builders in question for shoddy craftsmanship.
- pbh101 10mo ago
  Same with any OSS. Up to you to validate whether or not it is worth depending on, regardless of how built. Social proof is a primary avenue to that and has little to do with how built.
rootnod3 10mo ago
That has to be the worst analogy I have read in a while, and I’m HN that says something.
fauigerzigerk 10mo ago
I agree that it's ultimately about the product. But here's the problem. Five years ago, when someone on here said, "I wrote this non-trivial software", the implication was that a highly motivated and competent software engineer put a lot of effort into making sure that the project meets a reasonable standard of quality and will probably put some effort into maintaining the project. Today, it does not necessarily imply that. We just don't know.
- wahnfrieden 10mo ago
  Hand-written code never implied much about quality no matter the author, especially as we all use libraries of reusable code of varying quality
  - foltik 10mo ago
    Agree that just being hand-written doesn’t imply quality, but based on my priors, if something obviously looks like vibe-code it’s probably low quality. Most of the vibe-code I’ve seen so far appears functional to the point that people will defend it, but if you take a closer look it’s a massively over complicated rat’s nest that would be difficult for a human to extend or maintain. Of course you could just use more AI, but that would only further amplify these problems.
  - fauigerzigerk 10mo ago
    Not much, but infinitely more than now. If someone puts weeks and months of their time into building something, then I'm willing to take that as proof of their motivation to create something good. I'm also willing to take the existence of non-trivial code that someone wrote manually as proof of some level of competence. The presence of motivation + competence makes it more likely that the result could be something good.
- dabber 10mo ago
  The original person didn't say "I wrote this non-trivial software", they said "I built Velo".
happymellon 10mo ago
That's a lot of ifs.
risyachka 10mo ago
Asking someone to build a house - and then saying I built it - is "very misleading" to put it nicely. When you order a website on upwork - you didn't build it. You bought it.
- victorbjorklund 10mo ago
  Plenty of architects claim ”this is my building” even if they didn’t pour all the concrete
heliumtera 10mo ago
Every single commit is Claude. No human expert involved. Would you trust your company database to an 25 dollars vibe session? Would you live in a 5 dollars building? Is there any difference from hand tailored suit, constructed to your measurements, and a 5 dollars t-shirt? Some people don't want to live in a five dollars world.
- wahnfrieden 10mo ago
  Agent authorship doesn't imply unreviewed or underspecified code
  - heliumtera 10mo ago
    Vibe coded means precisely that!
    - wahnfrieden 10mo ago
      Yes but there’s no evidence this is vibe coded or not. You’re cynically claiming it due to agent authorship. As if there is no legitimate use. > No human expert involved You don’t know this, you are just hating. Besides the close review and specification that may be conducted with agents, even if you handwrite / edit code, it will say that it was co-authored by the agent if you have the agent do the commit for you.
- pbh101 10mo ago
  Most of the OSS projects on HN are not worthy for you to base your company on, especially sight unseen. Using an agent has nothing to do with it.
philipallstar 9mo ago
> In such cases the person says, I have built this building But this is also bad, because it's wrong. They drew it and maybe got some paperwork through a planning department. They didn't build it.

greatgib 10mo ago

The architect knows what it is doing. And the workers are professionals with supervisors to check that the work is done properly.

pebble 10mo ago

No, it's more like the architect has a cousin who is like "I totally got this bro" and builds the building for them.

foobarbecue 10mo ago
Right and also in this world there are no building codes or building inspections.

testdelacc1 10mo ago

What an outrageously bad analogy. Everyone involved in that building put their professional reputations and licenses on the line. If that building collapses, the people involved will lose their livelihoods and be held criminally liable. Meanwhile this vibe coded nonsense is provided “AS IS”, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED. We don’t even know if he read it before committing and pushing.

pritambarhate 10mo ago
Even billion dollar software products have similar clauses, it doesn't have anything to do with vibe coding. To build and sell software no educational qualification is needed. Quality of the software comes from testing. Humans and LLMs both make mistakes while coding.
- tracker1 10mo ago
  As an autodidact, and someone who has seen plenty of well educated idiots in the software profession, I'm happy there are no such requirements... I think a guild might be more reasonable than a professional org more akin to how it works for other groups (lawyers, doctors, etc). There are of course projects that operate at higher development specification standards, often in the military or banking. This should be extended to all vehicles and invasive medical devices.
tracker1 10mo ago
Depends on the building type/size/scale and jurisdiction. Modern tract homes are really varied, hit or miss and often don't see any negative outcomes for the builders in question for shoddy craftsmanship.
pbh101 10mo ago
Same with any OSS. Up to you to validate whether or not it is worth depending on, regardless of how built. Social proof is a primary avenue to that and has little to do with how built.

rootnod3 10mo ago

That has to be the worst analogy I have read in a while, and I’m HN that says something.

fauigerzigerk 10mo ago

I agree that it's ultimately about the product. But here's the problem. Five years ago, when someone on here said, "I wrote this non-trivial software", the implication was that a highly motivated and competent software engineer put a lot of effort into making sure that the project meets a reasonable standard of quality and will probably put some effort into maintaining the project. Today, it does not necessarily imply that. We just don't know.

wahnfrieden 10mo ago
Hand-written code never implied much about quality no matter the author, especially as we all use libraries of reusable code of varying quality
- foltik 10mo ago
  Agree that just being hand-written doesn’t imply quality, but based on my priors, if something obviously looks like vibe-code it’s probably low quality. Most of the vibe-code I’ve seen so far appears functional to the point that people will defend it, but if you take a closer look it’s a massively over complicated rat’s nest that would be difficult for a human to extend or maintain. Of course you could just use more AI, but that would only further amplify these problems.
- fauigerzigerk 10mo ago
  Not much, but infinitely more than now. If someone puts weeks and months of their time into building something, then I'm willing to take that as proof of their motivation to create something good. I'm also willing to take the existence of non-trivial code that someone wrote manually as proof of some level of competence. The presence of motivation + competence makes it more likely that the result could be something good.
dabber 10mo ago
The original person didn't say "I wrote this non-trivial software", they said "I built Velo".

happymellon 10mo ago

That's a lot of ifs.

risyachka 10mo ago

Asking someone to build a house - and then saying I built it - is "very misleading" to put it nicely. When you order a website on upwork - you didn't build it. You bought it.

victorbjorklund 10mo ago
Plenty of architects claim ”this is my building” even if they didn’t pour all the concrete

heliumtera 10mo ago

Every single commit is Claude. No human expert involved. Would you trust your company database to an 25 dollars vibe session? Would you live in a 5 dollars building? Is there any difference from hand tailored suit, constructed to your measurements, and a 5 dollars t-shirt? Some people don't want to live in a five dollars world.

wahnfrieden 10mo ago
Agent authorship doesn't imply unreviewed or underspecified code
- heliumtera 10mo ago
  Vibe coded means precisely that!
  - wahnfrieden 10mo ago
    Yes but there’s no evidence this is vibe coded or not. You’re cynically claiming it due to agent authorship. As if there is no legitimate use. > No human expert involved You don’t know this, you are just hating. Besides the close review and specification that may be conducted with agents, even if you handwrite / edit code, it will say that it was co-authored by the agent if you have the agent do the commit for you.
pbh101 10mo ago
Most of the OSS projects on HN are not worthy for you to base your company on, especially sight unseen. Using an agent has nothing to do with it.

philipallstar 9mo ago

> In such cases the person says, I have built this building But this is also bad, because it's wrong. They drew it and maybe got some paperwork through a planning department. They didn't build it.