4 ms·

> You're thinking Chinese surveillance the big irony, of course, is that i'm much more comfortable with China surveilling me than the US, since the latter can

by leeoniya 10mo ago

> You're thinking Chinese surveillance the big irony, of course, is that i'm much more comfortable with China surveilling me than the US, since the latter can throw me in jail, seize my assets, and ruin my family's life, while the former cannot.

devwastaken 10mo ago
The CCP can hijack your accounts and absolutely do all of those things, using your own government.
- riversflow 10mo ago
  could you provide an example of that happening?
afavour 10mo ago
The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits. The CCP… uh, not so much. I’m not trying to say the US government is faultless but it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment.
- mikkupikku 10mo ago
  > it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment. leeoniya didn't say anything about democracy. The practical reality is that regardless of what forms of government are involved, whichever government has the ability to arrest you is the government which is the greatest threat in your day-to-day life.
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    > government has the ability to arrest you is the government which is the greatest threat in your day-to-day life Assuming every government is the same, which I'm not so sure about. I rather be arrested by the German government than the US government, mainly because I don't want to disappear to black site and be made to disappear for years while I'm t̶o̶r̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ receiving enhanced discussion techniques. At least I know I'll be treated relatively OK by Germany, while my fear is pretty much the opposite from a lot of other governments out there.
    - mikkupikku 10mo ago
      > Assuming every government is the same Wrong. The American government is much better than the Russian government, but the Russian government cannot arrest me while the American government can, therefore the American government is a much more serious threat to me than the Russian government. No equivalence between the two governments is assumed or implied.
    - lazyasciiart 10mo ago
      "The government that has the ability to arrest you" is the one that controls the police on the street you live on. Not some abstract commentary on which government is best at arresting people.
- LocalH 10mo ago
  > The US government is a democracy and can be replaced I'm not sure this is as axiomatic as many think, in 2025
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    I've already placed my bets that current president will be the first to serve at least three terms since the two-term limit was introduced. Judging by what's happening, seems like a safer and safer bet every day.
    - tchalla 10mo ago
      Hasn’t Trump already said he won’t do another term?
      - pixelpoet 10mo ago
        No way would he ever lie!
      - Hikikomori 10mo ago
        Like he said he didn't know anything about project 2025? Steve Bannon is the one working on this, has said they have a plan to do it. Trump himself seems to believe that if the country is at war elections are postponed because that is how it works in Ukraine. Ergo Venezuela.
      - dingnuts 10mo ago
        [dead]
      - embedding-shape 10mo ago
        He has said that he cannot do more than two terms, but also there are ways to do more terms. Then he said it's too early to think about, then that he is joking, then that he wasn't joking, then that he isn't looking into it, but that they're "probably entitled to another four after that" (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-has-said-about-pursuing-a-third-term/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-has-said-about-pursu...), whatever the fuck that means. Ultimately, I don't think it matters much what he says or has said, he won't clearly say what he/they are planning, obviously.
- jchip303 10mo ago
  [dead]
- array_key_first 10mo ago
  It's not anti-democratic, it's just pragmatic. Yes the US is a democracy, but a lot of our systems suck ass and are also close in proximity. You DO NOT want to get into legal trouble in the US. Our justice system is beyond fucked. If there's one way to permanently ruin your life in the US, it's getting into legal trouble. You're better off smoking crack cocaine, that's probably healthier for your livelihood. I don't know about China's legal system, but even assuming it's more fucked, it's all the way over there. Not here. The main trouble with Flock and companies like them is that they attach to our broken systems like a tumor. If the system fails, which it often does, these accelerate it and make it worse. If you get falsely accused of something or piss off the wrong PD, this shit can ruin your life. Permanently and expeditiously. Even if you are the most Moral Orel you should be skeptical of these crime reduction claims. They don't just beat down crime, they beat down regular people, too. And if you ask them, they don't know the difference.
  - embedding-shape 10mo ago
    > I don't know about China's legal system, but even assuming it's more fucked, it's all the way over there. Not here. You're saying that the US legal system is extremely bad, shouldn't the assumption be that other countries have it better? I don't know much about either country's legal systems, but I do know that if I feel like my country is extremely bad at something, other countries probably do it better, at least that what I'll assume until I see evidence of something else.
    - array_key_first 10mo ago
      Maybe, I mostly gave that disclaimer to say that it actually doesn't matter much. Even if it's worse, that's still better, because it's over there. But yes, generally, I assume virtually every developed country (and some of the kind of developed countries) have a more just and competent legal system than the US. The US is an interesting beast, because when you compare it to the entire world on a bunch of stuff, it doesn't seem so bad. But when you compare to countries that have, like, clean running water, then it really falls flat in a lot of ways. This allows apologists to basically justify anything the US does, because somebody, somewhere, is doing it much worse. Hey guys, look at Uganda, they're genociding gay people!
- freeone3000 10mo ago
  It’s not anti-democratic, it’s simply a matter of exposure. China can WANT to do whatever they want to me, but I have no assets in China, no trade in China, and neither me nor anyone close to me will ever go to China. So it simply matters a lot less what China has on me than the country where I have friends, loved ones, financial assets, property, and frequently visit.
  - autoexec 10mo ago
    Generally I'd agree. The threats here are larger. That said China isn't powerless to hurt you either. I haven't seen much of it happening, but in theory China could blackmail you. They can manipulate and influence you and your children through social media and advertising, even encouraging kids to harm themselves/others. They can also fill the products they make for us with heavy metals and other poisons while building them to break draining our finances and filling our country with trash. The worst thing they could do though is just stop producing crap for us entirely since we're basically dependent on them for just about everything.
    - freeone3000 10mo ago
      And the united states can also do those things. We’ve been fighting against the hormone-filled milk for decades, and half of the ingredients are banned by smarter countries, but more than half of our food is still imported poison. But none of that has to do with who is surveilling me online.
- seniorThrowaway 10mo ago
  Maybe it isn't the US government we need to worry about. What's stopping Flock from compiling and selling personal dossiers on every citizen like all the other big tech companies? They're just a private company so nothing to worry about, right?
- bean469 10mo ago
  > The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits In theory, yes, but why do you think that it would be possible to forcefully replace in practice?
- tremon 10mo ago
  A democratic government that tramples all democratic processes ceases to be democratic.
stronglikedan 10mo ago
why would the former bother, when all they have to do is take you to one of their secret police stations in the US and disappear you?
- therobots927 10mo ago
  Still a much lower risk than Kristi Noem deciding you represent a national security risk because you tweeted “Fk ICE”
- ok_dad 10mo ago
  America probably invented extraordinary rendition.
- cwillu 10mo ago
  s/is take you to/is convince you to willing go to/g

devwastaken 10mo ago

The CCP can hijack your accounts and absolutely do all of those things, using your own government.

riversflow 10mo ago
could you provide an example of that happening?

afavour 10mo ago

The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits. The CCP… uh, not so much. I’m not trying to say the US government is faultless but it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment.

mikkupikku 10mo ago
> it amazes me how often I see this kind of anti-democratic institition sentiment. leeoniya didn't say anything about democracy. The practical reality is that regardless of what forms of government are involved, whichever government has the ability to arrest you is the government which is the greatest threat in your day-to-day life.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > government has the ability to arrest you is the government which is the greatest threat in your day-to-day life Assuming every government is the same, which I'm not so sure about. I rather be arrested by the German government than the US government, mainly because I don't want to disappear to black site and be made to disappear for years while I'm t̶o̶r̶t̶u̶r̶e̶d̶ receiving enhanced discussion techniques. At least I know I'll be treated relatively OK by Germany, while my fear is pretty much the opposite from a lot of other governments out there.
  - mikkupikku 10mo ago
    > Assuming every government is the same Wrong. The American government is much better than the Russian government, but the Russian government cannot arrest me while the American government can, therefore the American government is a much more serious threat to me than the Russian government. No equivalence between the two governments is assumed or implied.
  - lazyasciiart 10mo ago
    "The government that has the ability to arrest you" is the one that controls the police on the street you live on. Not some abstract commentary on which government is best at arresting people.
LocalH 10mo ago
> The US government is a democracy and can be replaced I'm not sure this is as axiomatic as many think, in 2025
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  I've already placed my bets that current president will be the first to serve at least three terms since the two-term limit was introduced. Judging by what's happening, seems like a safer and safer bet every day.
  - tchalla 10mo ago
    Hasn’t Trump already said he won’t do another term?
    - pixelpoet 10mo ago
      No way would he ever lie!
    - Hikikomori 10mo ago
      Like he said he didn't know anything about project 2025? Steve Bannon is the one working on this, has said they have a plan to do it. Trump himself seems to believe that if the country is at war elections are postponed because that is how it works in Ukraine. Ergo Venezuela.
    - dingnuts 10mo ago
      [dead]
    - embedding-shape 10mo ago
      He has said that he cannot do more than two terms, but also there are ways to do more terms. Then he said it's too early to think about, then that he is joking, then that he wasn't joking, then that he isn't looking into it, but that they're "probably entitled to another four after that" (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-has-said-about-pursuing-a-third-term/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-trump-has-said-about-pursu...), whatever the fuck that means. Ultimately, I don't think it matters much what he says or has said, he won't clearly say what he/they are planning, obviously.
jchip303 10mo ago
[dead]
array_key_first 10mo ago
It's not anti-democratic, it's just pragmatic. Yes the US is a democracy, but a lot of our systems suck ass and are also close in proximity. You DO NOT want to get into legal trouble in the US. Our justice system is beyond fucked. If there's one way to permanently ruin your life in the US, it's getting into legal trouble. You're better off smoking crack cocaine, that's probably healthier for your livelihood. I don't know about China's legal system, but even assuming it's more fucked, it's all the way over there. Not here. The main trouble with Flock and companies like them is that they attach to our broken systems like a tumor. If the system fails, which it often does, these accelerate it and make it worse. If you get falsely accused of something or piss off the wrong PD, this shit can ruin your life. Permanently and expeditiously. Even if you are the most Moral Orel you should be skeptical of these crime reduction claims. They don't just beat down crime, they beat down regular people, too. And if you ask them, they don't know the difference.
- embedding-shape 10mo ago
  > I don't know about China's legal system, but even assuming it's more fucked, it's all the way over there. Not here. You're saying that the US legal system is extremely bad, shouldn't the assumption be that other countries have it better? I don't know much about either country's legal systems, but I do know that if I feel like my country is extremely bad at something, other countries probably do it better, at least that what I'll assume until I see evidence of something else.
  - array_key_first 10mo ago
    Maybe, I mostly gave that disclaimer to say that it actually doesn't matter much. Even if it's worse, that's still better, because it's over there. But yes, generally, I assume virtually every developed country (and some of the kind of developed countries) have a more just and competent legal system than the US. The US is an interesting beast, because when you compare it to the entire world on a bunch of stuff, it doesn't seem so bad. But when you compare to countries that have, like, clean running water, then it really falls flat in a lot of ways. This allows apologists to basically justify anything the US does, because somebody, somewhere, is doing it much worse. Hey guys, look at Uganda, they're genociding gay people!
freeone3000 10mo ago
It’s not anti-democratic, it’s simply a matter of exposure. China can WANT to do whatever they want to me, but I have no assets in China, no trade in China, and neither me nor anyone close to me will ever go to China. So it simply matters a lot less what China has on me than the country where I have friends, loved ones, financial assets, property, and frequently visit.
- autoexec 10mo ago
  Generally I'd agree. The threats here are larger. That said China isn't powerless to hurt you either. I haven't seen much of it happening, but in theory China could blackmail you. They can manipulate and influence you and your children through social media and advertising, even encouraging kids to harm themselves/others. They can also fill the products they make for us with heavy metals and other poisons while building them to break draining our finances and filling our country with trash. The worst thing they could do though is just stop producing crap for us entirely since we're basically dependent on them for just about everything.
  - freeone3000 10mo ago
    And the united states can also do those things. We’ve been fighting against the hormone-filled milk for decades, and half of the ingredients are banned by smarter countries, but more than half of our food is still imported poison. But none of that has to do with who is surveilling me online.
seniorThrowaway 10mo ago
Maybe it isn't the US government we need to worry about. What's stopping Flock from compiling and selling personal dossiers on every citizen like all the other big tech companies? They're just a private company so nothing to worry about, right?
bean469 10mo ago
> The US government is a democracy and can be replaced should it exceed people’s limits In theory, yes, but why do you think that it would be possible to forcefully replace in practice?
tremon 10mo ago
A democratic government that tramples all democratic processes ceases to be democratic.

stronglikedan 10mo ago

why would the former bother, when all they have to do is take you to one of their secret police stations in the US and disappear you?

therobots927 10mo ago
Still a much lower risk than Kristi Noem deciding you represent a national security risk because you tweeted “Fk ICE”
ok_dad 10mo ago
America probably invented extraordinary rendition.
cwillu 10mo ago
s/is take you to/is convince you to willing go to/g