4 ms·

By any objective metric the world is less broken than ever before. But people who want to be defeatist and cynical can always find a plausible sounding reason t

by nradov 11mo ago

By any objective metric the world is less broken than ever before. But people who want to be defeatist and cynical can always find a plausible sounding reason to justify their negativity regardless of the facts. I'm part of an older generation and not burnt out or existentially starving or whatever. And more importantly I'm not actually starving or dying of plague or being sent off to die for my king or any of the other horrors that were a routine part of human existence for most people before the modern era.

rozap 11mo ago
They want to be able to afford a house. Historically, in the US at least, for lower and middle class people that has been within reach. Now that's not the case. If I was in my late 20s and was lighting thousands per month on fire in rent, it'd be pretty darn alienating. Sure, if you zoom out far enough, the standard of living for zoomers is pretty good, there's not a mass casualty event when the potato crop fails. But if you don't (and I'd argue, you shouldn't) it's pretty clear that their economic prospects are worse than their parents. That is pretty bleak. It's no wonder why they're politically more radical than the other generations. Put in the simplest terms: Economic nihilism happens when no house.
- icedrift 11mo ago
  Per Atrioc
  - rozap 11mo ago
    I've been got
- asdff 11mo ago
  They don't want just a house though. They want a house in a "cool" area. Look at median home prices in rust belt cities. Mortgages around $2k a month or so. Very doable for a lot of people but you never hear a drum beat about this. You never hear about people moving to these cities unless they have family there already to remind them that, hey, this is in fact a great deal.
  - lovich 11mo ago
    Are there jobs in those cities who sit in an area named after their economic collapse? Do student loan costs go down if you move to a low cost of living area? We had some movement in the direction of people immigrating to low cost areas like that with the rise of remote work, but then execs decided they didn’t like not having control over their workers live and did RTO. To their offices in the cities with high rent and home prices. You never heard about people taking that “great deal” because it’s not a great deal. Like really, you think there’s money left on the table like that and there’s not at least some low double digit percentage of the population that would have sought out the benefit? Or is it more likely the market evaluated the option and it’s not good
    - cosmic_cheese 11mo ago
      Exactly. Do people want to live in desirable areas? Absolutely. The much bigger draw to expensive metros, however, are the vastly more robust job prospects that come with those areas. In a city, you have both much better chances of finding employment suited to your skills specifically, better chances of being paid well for it, and better chances of upwards mobility. Plus, should it become necessary you're more likely to be able to find something to keep the bills paid with even if it's not what you'd like to be doing. Low CoL areas by contrast come with scant employment that's generally poorly compensated and almost always has a low ceiling. In some cases one can commute into the city for work and live in LCoL area, but then you're burning time — multiple hours each day, usually — that you'll never get back on your employer instead of yourself or with your family, plus the myriad expenses that come with driving that far and often.
      - nradov 11mo ago
        Which skills do you mean? If you're talking about skills in software development or investment banking then that might be true. But skills in welding or nursing can be applied anywhere.
        johnnyanmac 11mo ago
- nradov 11mo ago
  Affording a house is totally within reach if you want to make it a priority. Quite a few US states have both a low unemployment rate and a high homeownership rate. Try Vermont, Alabama, Montana, New Hampshire, Maine, Wyoming, etc. I understand that failed progressive policies have ruined opportunities for youths in some other states and that sucks but nationwide the future is still bright. https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=hou20 https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=h...
  - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
    1. unemployment rate is low because people unemployed Doordash to make ends meet. This is not "a house is within reach" money. 2. saying "move to a state with less job opportunity" to afford necessities really shows how out of touch people are with the youth. They moving to another state with what money? How are they getting approved without a job in tow? 3. "I understand that failed progressive policies have ruined opportunities for youths in some other states" is a doubly loaded sentence. a) it was not "progressive policies" that enabled zoning laws, lobbied out workers rights and unions, and made women lose agencies of their bodies. b) This isn't a "state by state" thing. Tell me how the job market is in Kentucky and why it's thriving compared to New York 4. "nationwide the future is still bright" The nation is bright when old people prosper and the youth suffer (which you half acknowledge)? So what's happening in 20 years when most of those people die? Is it gonna finally trickle down this time?
    - nradov 11mo ago
      Do you seriously believe that a lot of people in Vermont and Wyoming are working DoorDash? Young people are literally buying houses in those places. Put your prejudices aside and look at the actual economic data. Or keep whining, your choice.
      - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
        >Do you seriously believe that a lot of people in Vermont and Wyoming are working DoorDash? Among the youth who cannot get into entry level work, or the displaced who can't find a new job: yes. >Put your prejudices aside and look at the actual economic data. https://www.pymnts.com/gig-economy/2025/gen-z-turns-side-gigs-into-57-of-total-income/ https://www.pymnts.com/gig-economy/2025/gen-z-turns-side-gig... >Side hustles account for 43% of the average hustler’s total income. That share climbs to 57% for Gen Z consumers and a striking 76% for those earning under $50,000 annually — turning what was once a cushion into a core source of liquidity. Okay, your turn. Where's your economic data instead of "I know a young rocj dude who bought a house". Or is it easier to blame everyone else instead of taking a look at the reality around you.
nemomarx 11mo ago
I don't think anyone is comparing to old monarchies or etc, they're mentally comparing it to the 1950s and 60s and the postwar economic boom times. You can point out that things weren't as good as they're presented back then either, or that people are falling for advertising, but no one is really impressed that their living standard is better than the 1800s or earlier.
- nradov 11mo ago
  People should be impressed. We're doing a terrible job of teaching history. "Everything is amazing right now and nobody is happy."
icedrift 11mo ago
Speaking for my friends in their mid to late 20s, if you have a reasonable plan to get to a point where you can invest in your future as opposed to simply burning every last drop of income on mandatory expenses like food, housing and insurance I agree. When you can't foresee a way to get there you lack economic agency, economic nihilism is a rational response.
jfengel 11mo ago
As an American, I am surrounded by people who are so convinced that their country is awful that they want to basically abolish vast swathes of the government. Their elected representatives say extremely negative things about my beliefs, literally every single day, including veiled and not-so-veiled threats. The world may be physically comfortable but I do not feel safe. And that's because they do not feel safe from me. I don't want to sound defeatist but there is no objective way to describe it without sounding cynical.
asdff 11mo ago
Everytime someone says something like "how can I bring a kid into this world" I assume they know absolutely nothing about history at all. Be thankful your ancestors didn't think that when they were faced with actual life and death on the line, versus these people today being miffed that their apartment isn't as large as they'd like or they have to commute a little farther in or live in a city not featured in mass media.
- wat10000 11mo ago
  This presumes I'm thankful for being in this world they gave us, which is not a given.
  - asdff 11mo ago
    Be thankful you have the intelligence to even have such thoughts at all.
    - wat10000 11mo ago
      I don’t know, less intelligent people often seem happier.
YC543897594387 11mo ago
Under liberal capitalism, how you feel about the state of the world/economy is going to always be tied to how much money you're bringing in every month, so making a comment about how things are actually fine and Gen Z are "negative" and ungrateful is pointless if you're not going to make clear your own economic standing relative to others. I would be surprised if you're delivering Uber Eats with a Bachelor's degree, as many of Gen Z are doing today, considering the sentiment expressed.
tehjoker 11mo ago
This is the take all the younger generations complain about. Boomers had it good, laid waste to the world and the international scene and wonder why everyone else is bitter.
- nradov 11mo ago
  The oldest Baby Boomers came of age in the late 1960s. What about the world is worse now than then? I'm not here to defend the Baby Boomers but let's have a sense of perspective.
  - tehjoker 11mo ago
    Life chances for each generation in the imperial core have begun declining whereas back then life chances were continually improving.
  - linehedonist 11mo ago
    Certainly the world’s climate is worse. Wealth inequality is worse. I try hard not to be nostalgic, and even so I have to admit lots of things are not as good as they were in the 60s. It’s not even like the physical infrastructure is all that much better. I live in a house built in the 50s, and clearly the people living in it then led a pretty similar life to mine. It just cost me a lot more money.
johnnyanmac 11mo ago
To quote a Twitch streamer: "Radicalization is when no house". The world is less broken when you only look at the top of the K shaped economy. There's less immediate turmoil, but also much less opportunity, and tons of flags saying opportunity will only decrease more. That's now how you encourage a high trust society. I'll also add "Radicalization is when no community". And community is certianly broken among Gen Z. By design of those who want to maximize profits. Even the serfs of centuries ago had community because you need to work together to stay alive. Today's society is slowly realizing that, but this is after 80 years of individualism.

by nradov 11mo ago

rozap 11mo ago

They want to be able to afford a house. Historically, in the US at least, for lower and middle class people that has been within reach. Now that's not the case. If I was in my late 20s and was lighting thousands per month on fire in rent, it'd be pretty darn alienating. Sure, if you zoom out far enough, the standard of living for zoomers is pretty good, there's not a mass casualty event when the potato crop fails. But if you don't (and I'd argue, you shouldn't) it's pretty clear that their economic prospects are worse than their parents. That is pretty bleak. It's no wonder why they're politically more radical than the other generations. Put in the simplest terms: Economic nihilism happens when no house.

icedrift 11mo ago
Per Atrioc
- rozap 11mo ago
  I've been got
asdff 11mo ago
They don't want just a house though. They want a house in a "cool" area. Look at median home prices in rust belt cities. Mortgages around $2k a month or so. Very doable for a lot of people but you never hear a drum beat about this. You never hear about people moving to these cities unless they have family there already to remind them that, hey, this is in fact a great deal.
- lovich 11mo ago
  Are there jobs in those cities who sit in an area named after their economic collapse? Do student loan costs go down if you move to a low cost of living area? We had some movement in the direction of people immigrating to low cost areas like that with the rise of remote work, but then execs decided they didn’t like not having control over their workers live and did RTO. To their offices in the cities with high rent and home prices. You never heard about people taking that “great deal” because it’s not a great deal. Like really, you think there’s money left on the table like that and there’s not at least some low double digit percentage of the population that would have sought out the benefit? Or is it more likely the market evaluated the option and it’s not good
  - cosmic_cheese 11mo ago
    Exactly. Do people want to live in desirable areas? Absolutely. The much bigger draw to expensive metros, however, are the vastly more robust job prospects that come with those areas. In a city, you have both much better chances of finding employment suited to your skills specifically, better chances of being paid well for it, and better chances of upwards mobility. Plus, should it become necessary you're more likely to be able to find something to keep the bills paid with even if it's not what you'd like to be doing. Low CoL areas by contrast come with scant employment that's generally poorly compensated and almost always has a low ceiling. In some cases one can commute into the city for work and live in LCoL area, but then you're burning time — multiple hours each day, usually — that you'll never get back on your employer instead of yourself or with your family, plus the myriad expenses that come with driving that far and often.
    - nradov 11mo ago
      Which skills do you mean? If you're talking about skills in software development or investment banking then that might be true. But skills in welding or nursing can be applied anywhere.
      - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
nradov 11mo ago
Affording a house is totally within reach if you want to make it a priority. Quite a few US states have both a low unemployment rate and a high homeownership rate. Try Vermont, Alabama, Montana, New Hampshire, Maine, Wyoming, etc. I understand that failed progressive policies have ruined opportunities for youths in some other states and that sucks but nationwide the future is still bright. https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm https://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=hou20 https://www.statsamerica.org/sip/rank_list.aspx?rank_label=h...
- johnnyanmac 11mo ago
  1. unemployment rate is low because people unemployed Doordash to make ends meet. This is not "a house is within reach" money. 2. saying "move to a state with less job opportunity" to afford necessities really shows how out of touch people are with the youth. They moving to another state with what money? How are they getting approved without a job in tow? 3. "I understand that failed progressive policies have ruined opportunities for youths in some other states" is a doubly loaded sentence. a) it was not "progressive policies" that enabled zoning laws, lobbied out workers rights and unions, and made women lose agencies of their bodies. b) This isn't a "state by state" thing. Tell me how the job market is in Kentucky and why it's thriving compared to New York 4. "nationwide the future is still bright" The nation is bright when old people prosper and the youth suffer (which you half acknowledge)? So what's happening in 20 years when most of those people die? Is it gonna finally trickle down this time?
  - nradov 11mo ago
    Do you seriously believe that a lot of people in Vermont and Wyoming are working DoorDash? Young people are literally buying houses in those places. Put your prejudices aside and look at the actual economic data. Or keep whining, your choice.
    - johnnyanmac 11mo ago
      >Do you seriously believe that a lot of people in Vermont and Wyoming are working DoorDash? Among the youth who cannot get into entry level work, or the displaced who can't find a new job: yes. >Put your prejudices aside and look at the actual economic data. https://www.pymnts.com/gig-economy/2025/gen-z-turns-side-gigs-into-57-of-total-income/ https://www.pymnts.com/gig-economy/2025/gen-z-turns-side-gig... >Side hustles account for 43% of the average hustler’s total income. That share climbs to 57% for Gen Z consumers and a striking 76% for those earning under $50,000 annually — turning what was once a cushion into a core source of liquidity. Okay, your turn. Where's your economic data instead of "I know a young rocj dude who bought a house". Or is it easier to blame everyone else instead of taking a look at the reality around you.

nemomarx 11mo ago

I don't think anyone is comparing to old monarchies or etc, they're mentally comparing it to the 1950s and 60s and the postwar economic boom times. You can point out that things weren't as good as they're presented back then either, or that people are falling for advertising, but no one is really impressed that their living standard is better than the 1800s or earlier.

nradov 11mo ago
People should be impressed. We're doing a terrible job of teaching history. "Everything is amazing right now and nobody is happy."

icedrift 11mo ago

Speaking for my friends in their mid to late 20s, if you have a reasonable plan to get to a point where you can invest in your future as opposed to simply burning every last drop of income on mandatory expenses like food, housing and insurance I agree. When you can't foresee a way to get there you lack economic agency, economic nihilism is a rational response.

jfengel 11mo ago

As an American, I am surrounded by people who are so convinced that their country is awful that they want to basically abolish vast swathes of the government. Their elected representatives say extremely negative things about my beliefs, literally every single day, including veiled and not-so-veiled threats. The world may be physically comfortable but I do not feel safe. And that's because they do not feel safe from me. I don't want to sound defeatist but there is no objective way to describe it without sounding cynical.

asdff 11mo ago

Everytime someone says something like "how can I bring a kid into this world" I assume they know absolutely nothing about history at all. Be thankful your ancestors didn't think that when they were faced with actual life and death on the line, versus these people today being miffed that their apartment isn't as large as they'd like or they have to commute a little farther in or live in a city not featured in mass media.

wat10000 11mo ago
This presumes I'm thankful for being in this world they gave us, which is not a given.
- asdff 11mo ago
  Be thankful you have the intelligence to even have such thoughts at all.
  - wat10000 11mo ago
    I don’t know, less intelligent people often seem happier.

YC543897594387 11mo ago

Under liberal capitalism, how you feel about the state of the world/economy is going to always be tied to how much money you're bringing in every month, so making a comment about how things are actually fine and Gen Z are "negative" and ungrateful is pointless if you're not going to make clear your own economic standing relative to others. I would be surprised if you're delivering Uber Eats with a Bachelor's degree, as many of Gen Z are doing today, considering the sentiment expressed.

tehjoker 11mo ago

This is the take all the younger generations complain about. Boomers had it good, laid waste to the world and the international scene and wonder why everyone else is bitter.

nradov 11mo ago
The oldest Baby Boomers came of age in the late 1960s. What about the world is worse now than then? I'm not here to defend the Baby Boomers but let's have a sense of perspective.
- tehjoker 11mo ago
  Life chances for each generation in the imperial core have begun declining whereas back then life chances were continually improving.
- linehedonist 11mo ago
  Certainly the world’s climate is worse. Wealth inequality is worse. I try hard not to be nostalgic, and even so I have to admit lots of things are not as good as they were in the 60s. It’s not even like the physical infrastructure is all that much better. I live in a house built in the 50s, and clearly the people living in it then led a pretty similar life to mine. It just cost me a lot more money.

johnnyanmac 11mo ago

To quote a Twitch streamer: "Radicalization is when no house". The world is less broken when you only look at the top of the K shaped economy. There's less immediate turmoil, but also much less opportunity, and tons of flags saying opportunity will only decrease more. That's now how you encourage a high trust society. I'll also add "Radicalization is when no community". And community is certianly broken among Gen Z. By design of those who want to maximize profits. Even the serfs of centuries ago had community because you need to work together to stay alive. Today's society is slowly realizing that, but this is after 80 years of individualism.