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> because I have to raise two young children It’s a missed opportunity for posts like the link to also mention and reinforce the importance of family planning.

by isodev 10mo ago

> because I have to raise two young children It’s a missed opportunity for posts like the link to also mention and reinforce the importance of family planning. Many go into setting up a family because of peer pressure without assessing that it’s a very long term commitment. I’m sure you’re doing the best you can, of course. Maybe raising awareness that having kids is no longer an imperative for humans living in the 21st century could be something we do more of.

lm28469 10mo ago
If you wait until everything is planned, ready and accounted for you'll never have kids.
- SoftTalker 10mo ago
  Even if you reach that point, you're likely now at the age where fertility problems become a real issue. If you want to have kids do it when you're in your early 20s.
  - isodev 10mo ago
    This is factually false :) and if you’re really worried, there are many options available to you to preserve what you will need or consider adoption - there are so many humans being born without a family after all.
    - lovich 10mo ago
      I agree with you on a factual basis, but you understand that a large amount of people have a deep emotional instinct to not be ok with those options, right?
      - isodev 10mo ago
        Indeed, that’s what I mean by raising awareness. It takes time to change such deeply rooted beliefs. I think if humans are to prosper and resolve planet-wide challenges like global warming, we need to be better at managing resources and we need to work together as a species, not separate counties fending for themselves.
        lovich 10mo ago
        Well, I'm not sure I agree with convincing people to not feel this way, but its admirable that you are putting in effort to change the world in a way that fits your morals
    - toxik 10mo ago
      Most people I know realize they should have had kids sooner once they have them. Adoption is also not that easy, there are plenty of cases where adoption causes kidnapping.
      - 8n4vidtmkvmk 10mo ago
        How does adoption cause kidnapping?
        SoftTalker 10mo ago
        Birth parent has regrets and wants "their" kid back?
        tuna74 10mo ago
        There have been a lot of cases where adopted kids where not abandoned but rather taken from their parents. There is a market in adoptions and not everybody involved has been "clean".
  - wat10000 10mo ago
    This sort of "hurry up or it'll be too late" attitude is a great way to figure out that you don't want to have kids after it's too late to make that choice.
- dheera 10mo ago
  > you'll never have kids Which is also OK. It's financially smart to realize you don't have the resources and not have kids. If {some subset of the government, rich people, people who control the economy} want more people to have kids, which is something I keep hearing from that class of people: They need to collectively figure out how to put more money into the pockets of people. Higher salaries, drastic tax cuts, cheaper housing, more people will be financially ready and more kids will happen as a result. Also, work hours need to be standardized at 4 hours/day per person OR costs of living need to be designed that 1 parental income is enough.
  - toxik 10mo ago
    I think those people realize this, but it's a bit like global warming. They like their lifestyles.
  - em-bee 10mo ago
    i agree with most of your points, especially the reduction of work hours, but cost is not the issue that keeps people from having kids. it's actually the reverse. the more money people have, the less likely they have kids. the problem is lifestyle and career demands.
    - dheera 10mo ago
      I think it's also because high middle class earners are financially smart (don't buy things if they don't have the money), AND health-smart (realize their body's needs, including sleep) so they choose logically not to have kids, because they do not have the resources for it, and will not sacrifice their own well-being just to have kids. The upper class is financially smart, AND has the resources (20+ years of child rearing costs already secured upfront, ability to hire night nannies, ability to take a few years away from work without income, own a home and not at the mercy of rent increases), so they have kids. The lower class is often not financially smart, is not health smart, and systematically poisoned to sacrifice themselves and buy things they cannot afford. They are given insufficient resources and told that they should have kids, so they do.
em-bee 10mo ago
having kids is no longer an imperative for humans living in the 21st century on the contrary. global population growth will plateau in a few decades, and negative population growth is already a problem in many countries, like all western countries, south korea, and also china.
- isodev 10mo ago
  Stop looking it country by country. Globally, the trend is that of an increasing population. And fast. Humans are reproducing at unsustainable level.
  - macintux 10mo ago
    The number is still rising but the growth rate is plummeting. https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2016/03/ourworldindata_world-population-growth-1750-2100.png https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2016/03/ourworldin...
    - em-bee 10mo ago
      here is a more current graph that predicts the growth rate to become negative in the 2080s: https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=900&type=Probabilistic%20Projections&category=Population&subcategory=1_Total%20Population https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=900&type=Probabilis...
    - isodev 10mo ago
      It’s a trend and it’s slowing down not plummeting. And even if it is, there are already more of us than we know how to sustain. The problem at hand is not growth rate slowing down, it’s humans divided in tiny pockets of countries burning through what little we have left of natural resources. People who have kids today, do so knowing that their children will most certainly be displaced by natural disasters.
      - em-bee 10mo ago
        there are already more of us than we know how to sustain what is the evidence for that? if that were true then we would have lot's of people going hungry, but that's simply not the case. poverty is getting reduced world wide. if we could not sustain the current population, we should have lots of people dying from hunger and the population should stop growing. but the reason why population is growing especially in africa is exactly because the growth is still sustainable. if it wasn't, then it could not be growing.

by isodev 10mo ago

lm28469 10mo ago

If you wait until everything is planned, ready and accounted for you'll never have kids.

SoftTalker 10mo ago
Even if you reach that point, you're likely now at the age where fertility problems become a real issue. If you want to have kids do it when you're in your early 20s.
- isodev 10mo ago
  This is factually false :) and if you’re really worried, there are many options available to you to preserve what you will need or consider adoption - there are so many humans being born without a family after all.
  - lovich 10mo ago
    I agree with you on a factual basis, but you understand that a large amount of people have a deep emotional instinct to not be ok with those options, right?
    - isodev 10mo ago
      Indeed, that’s what I mean by raising awareness. It takes time to change such deeply rooted beliefs. I think if humans are to prosper and resolve planet-wide challenges like global warming, we need to be better at managing resources and we need to work together as a species, not separate counties fending for themselves.
      - lovich 10mo ago
        Well, I'm not sure I agree with convincing people to not feel this way, but its admirable that you are putting in effort to change the world in a way that fits your morals
  - toxik 10mo ago
    Most people I know realize they should have had kids sooner once they have them. Adoption is also not that easy, there are plenty of cases where adoption causes kidnapping.
    - 8n4vidtmkvmk 10mo ago
      How does adoption cause kidnapping?
      - SoftTalker 10mo ago
        Birth parent has regrets and wants "their" kid back?
      - tuna74 10mo ago
        There have been a lot of cases where adopted kids where not abandoned but rather taken from their parents. There is a market in adoptions and not everybody involved has been "clean".
- wat10000 10mo ago
  This sort of "hurry up or it'll be too late" attitude is a great way to figure out that you don't want to have kids after it's too late to make that choice.
dheera 10mo ago
> you'll never have kids Which is also OK. It's financially smart to realize you don't have the resources and not have kids. If {some subset of the government, rich people, people who control the economy} want more people to have kids, which is something I keep hearing from that class of people: They need to collectively figure out how to put more money into the pockets of people. Higher salaries, drastic tax cuts, cheaper housing, more people will be financially ready and more kids will happen as a result. Also, work hours need to be standardized at 4 hours/day per person OR costs of living need to be designed that 1 parental income is enough.
- toxik 10mo ago
  I think those people realize this, but it's a bit like global warming. They like their lifestyles.
- em-bee 10mo ago
  i agree with most of your points, especially the reduction of work hours, but cost is not the issue that keeps people from having kids. it's actually the reverse. the more money people have, the less likely they have kids. the problem is lifestyle and career demands.
  - dheera 10mo ago
    I think it's also because high middle class earners are financially smart (don't buy things if they don't have the money), AND health-smart (realize their body's needs, including sleep) so they choose logically not to have kids, because they do not have the resources for it, and will not sacrifice their own well-being just to have kids. The upper class is financially smart, AND has the resources (20+ years of child rearing costs already secured upfront, ability to hire night nannies, ability to take a few years away from work without income, own a home and not at the mercy of rent increases), so they have kids. The lower class is often not financially smart, is not health smart, and systematically poisoned to sacrifice themselves and buy things they cannot afford. They are given insufficient resources and told that they should have kids, so they do.

em-bee 10mo ago

having kids is no longer an imperative for humans living in the 21st century on the contrary. global population growth will plateau in a few decades, and negative population growth is already a problem in many countries, like all western countries, south korea, and also china.

isodev 10mo ago
Stop looking it country by country. Globally, the trend is that of an increasing population. And fast. Humans are reproducing at unsustainable level.
- macintux 10mo ago
  The number is still rising but the growth rate is plummeting. https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2016/03/ourworldindata_world-population-growth-1750-2100.png https://assets.ourworldindata.org/uploads/2016/03/ourworldin...
  - em-bee 10mo ago
    here is a more current graph that predicts the growth rate to become negative in the 2080s: https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=900&type=Probabilistic%20Projections&category=Population&subcategory=1_Total%20Population https://population.un.org/wpp/graphs?loc=900&type=Probabilis...
  - isodev 10mo ago
    It’s a trend and it’s slowing down not plummeting. And even if it is, there are already more of us than we know how to sustain. The problem at hand is not growth rate slowing down, it’s humans divided in tiny pockets of countries burning through what little we have left of natural resources. People who have kids today, do so knowing that their children will most certainly be displaced by natural disasters.
    - em-bee 10mo ago
      there are already more of us than we know how to sustain what is the evidence for that? if that were true then we would have lot's of people going hungry, but that's simply not the case. poverty is getting reduced world wide. if we could not sustain the current population, we should have lots of people dying from hunger and the population should stop growing. but the reason why population is growing especially in africa is exactly because the growth is still sustainable. if it wasn't, then it could not be growing.